I distro hopped for a bit before finally settling in Debian (because Debian was always mentioned as a distro good for servers, or stable machines that are ok with outdated software)
And while I get that Debian does have software that isn’t as up to date, I’ve never felt that the software was that outdated. Before landing on Debian, I always ran into small hiccups that caused me issues as a new Linux user - but when I finally switched over to Debian, everything just worked! Especially now with Debian 13.
So my question is: why does Debian always get dismissed as inferior for everyday drivers, and instead mint, Ubuntu, or even Zorin get recommended? Is there something I am missing, or does it really just come down to people not wanting software that isn’t “cutting edge” release?
People asking for distro recommendations usually ask for their desktop.
Debian is great, but it’s hardly ever the best choice for a desktop, at least not for the kind of people who ask for distro recommendations.
I’ve used it for a few years. What issue does it have for a desktop? I’ve had everything “just work”.
There is absolutely no issue with it.
But there are lots of other distros that add things to it which are great for desktop.
GUI tools for driver installation and kernel switching, snapshots, preinstalled Steam+Wine+Codecs+Flatpak, newer and more software, atomic updates, a faster package manager, more third party support, etc.Debian is better than it ever was, but so are lots of other distros, especially the ones that build on it.
Nowadays you really have the choice between “good” and “better”.
Outside of security patches there probably won’t be the latest version of apps available, so the software you use can be out of date and you will have to wiat for new features that have been implemented. Flatpak mostly solves this for gui user-level apps, but it’s not set up by default and can require tinkering with permissions to fix some issues.
If you have new hardware it might not work well with the kernel that comes installed, but you can enable backports and get a newer one.
Practically half the linux exo-system is built on top of debian, so you can get a different distro built on debian but with better default experience or custom guis for certain tasks like managing drivers, so people you can save time and not have to dive into terminal commands following how-to guides for various things.
I guess its cause when people ask for distro recommendations they’re usually new to Linux, thus a more user-friendly distro that’s built on-top of Debian like a flavour of Ubuntu or Mint is a better fit than straight Debian
Because Mint exists and is just ”Debian configured for regular humans”.
Anyone that would rather have raw Debian doesn’t need to be told that.
For reasons similar to why plain bread doesn’t show up in sandwich recommendations.
That’s my take too… it’s certainly a soild choice, but not incredibly exciting.
boring is awesome if you need to just work all the time and for a long time.
One of the main historical reasons was the Debian project’s puritan approach to open source, meaning the distro was very picky about what it could easily run on. As an example, most network drivers for Realtek nics weren’t included out of the box as they contained non-free code, there was no direct way to install Nvidia drivers instead of nouveau, a lot of the hardware didn’t work in the installer unless you sideloaded the drivers from a usb stick and so on.
There was a non-free ISO version to get around this, but you needed to know of it to use it, and it wasn’t provided anywhere by default. The download page for it was just a barebone directory listing within the mirror. No link or information was provided for it on the main project page.
Starting from version 12 or 13 (don’t remember exactly) proprietary drivers have been included in the installation images, which removed the biggest pain point (IMO) for novice users. Apart from that Debian has been one of the easier distros to install, and has things like a considerably better experience when updating to the next major release. It’s not really slower to update packages than Ubuntu, as I’d be wary of recommending the non-LTS versions to novice users. They tend to be quite unstable compared to LTS.
Personally I’ve daily driven Debian for close to five years, on all my devices except the work laptop. That one is running Ubuntu 24.04 as the employer requires either that or Fedora for Linux users.
Thanks for the info, I was not entirely aware about the fact that they recently changes their proprietary software approach.
it is from debian 12 onwards that installer includes non free firmware, and also has a easy opt in for non free firmware repo enabling
Because those recommendations are written for new users. A new user will be better served by a distribution which puts user-friendliness at its forefront. If you’re not a newbie you probably don’t need recommendations because you already know what distributions are available out there.
Debian and Red Hat are the foundation for most of the popular distros out there.
It really depends on the situation. Hardware support is definitely better than it used to be and everything in linux is hackable regardless of distribution if needed, but the reason I haven’t switched my main tower from Arch to Debian is that fear of requiring extra work for things like gaming and music production. If you’re running the newest and latest hardware you might run into an issue depending on the kernel version being used, etc.,
That being said, I use Debian every day on my thinkpad and love it. I have an interest in migrating away from Ubuntu Server and toward Debian for servers as well. I don’t think I’ve ever heard it “not recommended”, just similar caution expressed.
Because linux distribution recommendations are written by people who have nothing better to do than be hypnotized by the jangling keys of whatever’s new or hot for people who have nothing better to do than be hypnotized by the jangling keys of whatever’s new or hot.
It’s the same reason rhel doesn’t get recommended tbh.
well there is more to the lack of RHEL recomendation, no sane person likes corporate lock in and although rhel is fairly open there is always a little bit more than with debian
I tend to think 99 percent of linux users or prospective users would exchange the modicum of what could be considered lock in if you were to really give it the most uncharitable read in the history of computing for the extensive documentation and support.
I have nothing but hate in my heart and vitriol in my guts for red hat but their linux is owed more recommendations than it gets.
Debian is fine distro and many people rely on it as strong foundation including the people that build ubuntu and mint. Maybe Debian is the hidden champion.
When Ubuntu became popular, it had some advantages like reliable release cycles, slightly newer packages, better integration of proprietary drivers. Stuff that was not wanted in Debian stable main at the time.
Other non-debian-based distros also brought some advantages.
Personally, I’d love to see Debian as the base distro with Mint, Ubuntu and others building ontop of it. I like my apt update. I just won’t send novices straight to Debian when the derivates have more desktop users.
It’s just more barebones than lots of other options, and distro hopping tends to be about exploration. There isn’t a whole lot to explore on Debian, because its purpose is stability and simplicity.
You find tons of Debian-derived distros exactly for this reason. They build on that stable core but add bells and whistles. Distros usually are defined by which bells and whistles they include by default.
Debian is more like AOSP. It’s a starting point. Super bare. More commonly used in servers and such.
Also things tend to be older on Debian which isn’t the fit for more gaming oriented systems. Due to optimization not being yet available and drivers for the latest hardware
Ah, ok - yeah I can definitely see how for gaming it might not be ideal. I’ve never thought Linux was all that smooth of a transition for gamers though, no matter what OS you’re using - but I guess that heavily depends on the games you’re playing.
Gaming on Linux has been really good for the last several years. The main issue is certain multiplayer games that intentionally block Linux users.
It’s pretty smooth on bazzite aside from kernel anti-cheat games. Just run em through steam, even pirated games
Even with games that usually use kernal anti-cheat systems like battleeye, some games specifically have enabled proton support and just work as well.
I guess that heavily depends on the games you’re playing
I think this is the key thing.
If you’re always buying the newest GPU to play the latest tech- envelope-pushing AAA title that requires the latest greatest driver, then you’re probably not going to have a good time with gaming on Debian.
But some of us don’t care about those types of games, or maybe in some cases we do but are willing to wait a while to play a particular title (hello Patient Gamers). In that case Debian is a nice, rock solid gaming platform.
Anecdotally, I probably do 85+% of my gaming on Debian (the rest being my steam deck). And it works fine for me because of the types of games I play and/or how long I tend to wait before getting new titles (giving Debian time to catch up).
It’s definitely not for every gamer, but I don’t think it’s as unusable for gaming as people often suggest.
What would be considered “bare” about it? Granted, I’m not gaming on it or anything, but I’ve found it to work pretty well out of the box, just downloading software as I need - but nothing that has caused any sort of headache due to missing drivers or anything like that.
To me it seems like it would be pretty simple for most people to switch over from windows - albiet maybe not for the super beginners that have never seen a command line - but for most semi-tech literate, I would think it would be a decent entry into Linux.
Genuinely curious what is actually stripped down or missing, because maybe it’s just something that I’m not even aware that I’m missing out on, lol
Older drivers won’t support newer hardware. Only includes default apps from gnome and KDE. No DE tweaks to speak of. No performance optimizations. No Gear Lever. No fractional scaling implemented, etc. etc.
I guess it makes sense that I’m comfortable with using Debian then, lol, because I don’t know what most of those things you mentioned are - haha.
Thanks for the explanation though :)
no fractional scaling? thats a DE/WM feature not distro related
old drivers? so is every stable point release distro unless you go out of your way to get an to date kernel,
only includes default apps? you mean following the DE’s developer’s vision? (sure for gnome it is a downside for most, tweaks should 100% be included on all gnome installs)
no fractional scaling? thats a DE/WM feature not distro related
Lots of distros these days come out of the box with that pre-configured, so no, it’s not.
only includes default apps? you mean following the DE’s developer’s vision?
Yes.
Super bare. 🤣🤣🤣
Debian is probably Thee most supported distro with the most packages available.
Debian is also among the absolute best among Linux desktop options, and actually quite popular.
There’s a reason Debian is still the most forked distro.Debian is probably Thee most supported distro with the most packages available.
I’m not talking about availability. I’m talking about comes pre-installed so the user doesn’t have to go out and find them to use basic functionality.
Debian is also among the absolute best among Linux desktop options, and actually quite popular.
I did not say it was not great or popular.
There’s a reason Debian is still the most forked distro.
This is not the dunk you think it is…
While I get what you mean about things being pre-installed for super new people to Linux/terminal. . . If it has a apt package, it’s as easy as “sudo apt install xyz”. Also, I thi k Debian comes with the synaptic package manager which makes it fairly easy to install as well. With that said though, I do see your point, as it’s one more hurdle.
If it has a apt package, it’s as easy as “sudo apt install xyz”
This is the kind of ignorant shit that relegates Linux to nerd circles. What do you do with this information? What is xyz, and exactly xyz because if you get a single letter wrong it does not work. Further the user has to already know what they want, which a new user will not.
I’m talking about comes pre-installed
Apart from Steam not being a standard installed item, it is very feature full.
For 32 bit you also need to enable multi-arch.But apart from gaming it is in no way bare and very very far from “super bare”. Ans Steam is pretty easy to install.
I did not say it was not great or popular.
You wrote it was mostly for servers. Which although it is an excellent server distro, it is most definitely developed at least as much for desktop use.
This is not the dunk you think it is…
I don’t think you really understand the implications.
Apart from Steam not being a standard installed item, it is very feature full.
I’ve just given you several examples of how it’s not.
You wrote it was mostly for servers
No I wrote that’s it’s more commonly used in servers.
I don’t think you really understand the implications.
I don’t think you do.
I don’t know the AOSP acronym so I’ll take a guess: Always On Server Platform?
Android Open Source Project, it’s the open base that the actual Android releases are built upon. It’s not really usable as is, since it lacks the required kernel blobs and software that people have come to expect (like Google’s proprietary stuff).
Android open source project. It’s the base behind every android variation, but it has pretty generic software (although sometimes better than the alternatives companies choose to ship instead).
Is there something I am missing, or does it really just come down to people not wanting software that isn’t “cutting edge” release?
It might just be that, people tend to gravitate to the next shiny new thing. But you’re right, even when the application repos skew a bit older they’re not really that old. And technically nothing is stopping you from running a more up-to-date application via flatpak, appimage, or just compiling directly. I think it’s perfect for people looking for a more vanilla boring experience with the standard DE environments (GNOME, KDE, etc.).
I will say for total noobs another distro is maybe more friendlier, more polished installer, etc… before settling on Debian I was happily using Ubuntu which felt easier for someone still getting used to Linux. But I always knew it was Debian based which made me curious about eventually just running Debian itself… nowadays Debian is my main and has been great.
One thing I have yet to seen brung up in the replies yet, is Debian Testing and Debian Unstable
I have been using unstable on my desktop no issues,I would say that it is suprisingly stable, I only had one breakage so far and I have used it for one year as my main and sole system
