cross-posted from: https://poptalk.scrubbles.tech/post/2333639
I was just forwarded this someone in my household who watches our server. That’s it folks. I’ve been a hold out for a long time, but this is honestly it.
They want me to pay to stream content that I bought from my hardware transcoded also on my hardware.
I’ll say it. As of today, I say Plex is dead. Luckily I’ve been setting up Jellyfin, I guess it’s time to make it production ready.
Edit: I have a Plex Pass. More comments saying “Just buy a plex pass” are seriously not getting it. I have a Plex Pass and my users are still getting this.
And for the thousandth person who wants to say the same things to me:
- YES I know I’m unaffected as a Plex Pass owner.
- My users were immediately angry at it, which made me angry. Our users don’t understand what plex pass is, and they shouldn’t have to, that’s why I had it. The fact that they were pinged even though it should have kept working is horribly sloppy
- Plex is still removing functionality. I don’t care that “People should pay their fair share”. If Plex wants to put every new feature behind a paywall, that’s completely okay. They are removing functionality.
- “But they have cloud costs”. Remote streaming is negligible to them. It’s a dynamic DNS service. Plex client logs in, asks where server is, plex cloud responds with the IP and port of where server is located. That’s it.
- “Good luck finding another remote streaming” - Again, Plex just opens up an IP and port. Jellyfin also just opens up an IP and port (Hold on jellyfin folks I know, security, that’s a separate conversation). All “remote streaming” is is their dynamic dns. Literal pennies to them. Know what actually is costing them money? Hosting all of that ad-supported “free” content that they’re probably losing money on.
In short, I don’t care how you justify it. Plex is doing something shitty. They’re removing functionality that has been free for years. I’m not responding to any more of your comments repeating the same arguments over and over.
Lol “Your Friends at Plex”
get fucked, assholes, Jellyfin is better anyway
Doesn’t jellyfin just not do this at all? Like if you want to stream remotely you need to figure out a vpn solution to do it?
You can stream remotely via jellyfin if you expose your server to the internet. VPN is safer but not the only option.
Also Wireguard, which is what Tailscale uses.
Yeah, they both do. That’s a lot more manual though.
“Very easy” assuming you aren’t trying to share with non-technical people or your elderly parents.
I’ve walked them through using tailscale. You install it once and forget it.
How do I install it on my mom’s Chromecast or my sister’s LG TV?
Dude how the hell am I supposed to walk my mom through setting up tailscale on her Roku?
And what if you have multiple friends all sharing each others libraries?
This is not a feasible solution let alone a “very easy” one.
I was thinking a computer! Multiple people can connect to your tailscale and jellyfin at once. That’s not so much an issue. Other than that, there’s not so much more than installing the app and signing in with email or Google then sending them a link. I use a shared email and pass to speed up the process.
You completely ignored his question, Tailscale is not a valid solution for your mom’s Roku
Completely unreasonable to need to walk people through this. It’s OK to say jellyfin can’t do remote access.
Well, I never said it did out of the box. I was giving people the example of how I did it, in case they wanted an easy option for PCs. No offence meant, my friend.
You’re replying to a message that literally says that, so it makes you sound like you think Tailscale is somewhat integrated into Jellyfin, because the message originally said exactly that you needed a third party app to solve this issue in Jellyfin
Mate chill, I already implied I misunderstood and apologised. I’m human and allowed to make mistakes.
I used a reverse proxy just fine.
That’s correct
That is not correct. A VPN would be one method but you can also just expose the service to the internet in a number of ways and accomplish the same thing Plex provides.
You probably shouldn’t just expose jellyfin to the internet quite yet though. There are some ongoing efforts to fix unauthenticated endpoint problems.
Not to be “achtuallying” bit VPN is not a way to remote stream, it’s a way to bring remote clients in the local network.
Likewise exposing services on the internet…not really going to happen esepcially for people - like me - that run plex/jellyfin on their NAS.
I don’t have a horse in this race, i don’t use remote streaming, I only ever streamed from my nas to my 2 TVs, and I am experimenting with jellyfin. But for those who do need remote streaming, jellyfin is going to be problematic.
That’s correct
You’re 100% correct. I always find it funny how hardcore some people are with jellyfin vs Plex. I’ll probably end up getting downvotes on this but imo Plex is way simpler to setup and keep running, and as a lifetime pass owner, I’ve very rarely felt like my experience has been deteriorated by any of the changes that the jellyfin crowd freaks out about. Plus plexamp is honestly such a great music player. I’ll happily keep running Plex for the foreseeable future.
Plex is more polished, but I love Jellyfin’s subtitle search; it blows Plex’s socks away.
Also, Jellyfin doesn’t nag me every effing time to enable DRM in Firefox for some unfathomable reason.
But Plex definitely wins on performance, IMO.
Set up Bazarr.
Ditto to all of this, except I don’t know anything about plexamp
If you have music on your server, I’d strongly recommend checking it out. I believe it was started as a side project by the Plex devs and it’s a way better music player than the one built into the Plex apps.
I appreciate this recommendation. I’ve been trying it out for like 5 minutes and I’m very impressed! This could be life-changing and lead to me axing Spotify. Thank you kind stranger!
Not necessarily a VPN but you’re 100% on your own for security. When i used to run Emby, I had a white-list IPs but this doesn’t work great since most ISPs rotate IPs over time and if you’re on wireless it could change all the time.
Yeah a VPN isn’t “necessary”, but it’s the most straightforward way. Unfortunately it’s not really at all feasible for many people who currently play from other peoples plex libraries.
I use a non-rooted docker, reverse proxy, and cloudfare domain. I know Jellyfin has some API security issues but I’m still unconvinced that any of them can be used to escalate to any level that would threaten my server (or even my instance of Jellyfin).
No. You have to expose your server to the internet in some way bit you don’t have to set up some sort of VPN. There are plenty of people who will tell you how awful of an idea it is but if you make smart choices it’s not a big deal.
Well, as an application it has a huge attack surface, it’s also able to download stuff from internet (e.g., subs) and many people run it on NAS. I run jellyfin in docker, I didn’t do a security assessment yet, but for sure it needs volume mounts, not sure about what capabilities it runs with (surely NET_BIND, and I think DAC_READ_SEARCH to avoid file ownership issues with downloaders?). Either way, I would never expose a service like that on the internet.
This is also true about Plex which must also be exposed to the internet
No that’s the thing. Plex can also use their infra as a tunneling system. You can have remote streaming without exposing Plex publicly and without VPN. It is slow though.
Plex doesn’t even work properly unless you set it up with network mode host, otherwise it always considers your service to be remote because they’re not on the same network as anything you try to watch it from. Jellyfin requires lots less access, and you’re so worried about it you can add a Tailscale mod to the container and isolate it completely so it’s only accessible via Tailscale similarly to what you think Plex is doing (which doesn’t harden security as much as you think)
I presume you mean running Plex in host namespace. I don’t do that as I run the synology package, but I can totally see the issue you mean.
Running in host namespace is bad, not terrible, especially because my NAS in on a separate VLAN, so besides being able to reach other NAS local services, cannot do do much. Much much much less risk than exposing the service on the internet (which I also don’t).
Also, this all is not a problem for me, I don’t use remote streaming at all, hence why I am also experimenting with jellyfin. If I were though, I would have only 2 options: expose jellyfin on the internet, maybe with some hacky IP whitelist, or expect my mom to understand VPNs for her TV.
(which doesn’t harden security as much as you think)
Would be nice to elaborate this. I think it reduces a lot of risk, compared to exposing the service publicly. Any vulnerability of the software can’t be directly exploited because the Plex server is not reachable, you need an intermediate point of compromise. Maybe Plex infra can be exploited, but that’s a massively different type of attack compared to the opportunities and no-cost “run shodab to check exposed Plex instances” attack.
Incorrect.
I fucking hate corporate speak.
Jellyfin is better anyway
I wish this were true, but as a multi-year Plex-to-Jellyfin migrant, I have to point out that Plex was the better software.
I still choose to run Jellyfin for other reasons (don’t like the commercial path Plex is taking, among others), but I still do miss the better reliability and larger feature set in the Plex software stack.
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Good thing jellyfin is open source then.
That’s what Emby thought.
Seems like it was only a matter of time.
20% more will jump to Jellyfin. The other 80% will entrench and talk even more about how great Plex is. I mean Jesus, $250 to watch pirated movies. lol wtf It’s also fucking wild to me that people are defending a monetization model that is on self hosted hardware. Like, I gotta pay for my server and then a license to avoid buying DVDs. Fuck it, at this point just buy the fucking movie.
Ya’ll are brain dead. Plex loves you tho.
Trying to monetize the piracy of your users. That’s a bold business strategy.
Look, I know a lot of people could be using the sharing feature to share material that is in the public domain or that they own the copyright to, but let’s be honest: most of that sharing would be considered an “unlicensed public performance” by the MAFIAA.
They sold to private equity a couple years back. The enshittification started that day.
They took VC funding (which is also bad), selling to private equity is very different (they strip mine businesses).
to monetize the piracy of your users
that’s generally what gets sites and services in ‘trouble’
Trying to monetize the piracy of your users. That’s a bold business strategy.
Some time ago, never mind how long precisely, Plex were trying to legitimise themselves, by adding streaming from official sources, etc.
I would be curious if this is meant to be a deterrent, or just to look like one by making piracy expensive, so they can eat their cake and have it too.
It’s not that expensive. You can buy a lifetime pass for like $70 when it goes on sale. That’s like half the price I pay to Comcast each month for my internet.
Not anymore. They changed the prices and discounts by quite a bit.
Dotcom’s been doing it for decades and he’s rich as hell. Even after losing 95% of his money since 2012 he’s still got $10mil.
not a plex user but someone buried the lede here… to me, this is the neon sign that screams GTFO:
we noticed that you’ve accessed libraries in the past
what business of yours is it to notice my private comings and goings?! what other actionable intel do y’all keep in your logs?! bye!
I never got the idea of selfhosting but paying (except for enterprise-grade support or donations) anyway.
Guess it’s time to start using jellyfin and contributing
Oh no a paid, proprietary, piece of shit software does something shitty. Who could’ve ever saw this coming?!
I’ve said it for years anytime anyone mentioned running a Plex server. As soon as you install that on your server or your homelab it’s no longer your server. Proprietary software is malware
Welcome to jellyfin!
Exhibit #46,853 for why freeware will inevitably fall out from under your feet and why you should exclusively use FOSS wherever possible.
Preach, brother! Preach!
“On 21 May 2008, XBMC developer Elan Feingold forked the source code of XBMC and started a new project called Plex”
GPL v2 source.
They’ve long been suspected of being greedy lil GPL violaters.
The more users on Jellyfin the better shot it has at getting more developer attention and users willing to contribute financially even if just occasional one off donation. How it goes with any open source application. More users, more developer interest, more feedback from users, subset of users willing to financially support the project
I’ve only ever used jellyfin and have no complaints.
I avoided plex and went with jellyfill because it’s free/libre software.
YES JELLYFIN! Thank you Plex for enshitifying!
And how are you doing remote streaming from friends with Jellyfin?
I’m not personally. I’d run a VPN for others to connect in. Apparently a lot of folks just expose it to the internet and then enforce logins.
Gross
My whole family streams from my brother’s server hundreds of km away…
I’m doing it with a jellyfin client to my friend’s jellyfin server.
My mom streams mine across an ocean.
I was forcing VPN for a couple years but I’ve just recently started allowlisting client IPs instead. Not as good but definitely easier.
Give them the address of the server?
The same way you’d set up remote plex.
Plex will have some cost associated with remote streaming, so I don’t see any issue with them charging for that.
If people don’t want to pay then they should just set it up themselves, like they would have to do with jellyfin anyways.
No it’s not the same as with Plex because they have their own security solution and authentication servers. With Jellyfin that’s completely on you to figure out and doing it wrong (exposing open ports to the open internet) can have terrible consequences.
I do agree that it’s not a huge deal to buy a lifetime Plex Pass as a server owner though. I’ve had my issues with Plex over the last decade but it’s a hell of a lot more polished than the competition and it’s extremely easy to share with all my friends and family who don’t know shit about computers or other tech related subjects.
@ifItWasUpToMe @ripcord I’m not sure if I’m understanding. What costs are there to plex remote streaming? The streaming aspect is coming directly from my plex server public IP. I know there is some option that proxies the traffic through their servers but this isn’t enabled by default.
Mainly STUN and TURN servers to allow NAT traversal without having to configure port forwarding and leave your server exposed to the internet.
It’ll use those servers to setup a peer-to-peer connection which at that point you are streaming directly to clients.
If you want to setup a VPN for your users, or open/forward public ports to your server then you do not need to pay.
Do you have a source for this claim that the new pricing scheme only applies to the Plex Relays? As far as I can tell it applies to anything they consider “remote access”, regardless of whether it goes through their servers or not.
I don’t have a source but if you setup a VPN to your home there’s no way plex could know that you aren’t actually home. So as long as local streaming works, then streaming over VPN would work as well.
Similar thing with port forwarding on your router, except it’s much worse for security.
Be that as it may, the Plex official guide for setting up “remote streaming” walks you through port forwarding. That implies that when they say remote streaming, they mean port forwarding by default. I then had to go digging to find mention of the Relay service which seems to be a fallback. (Apparently it isn’t even supported by all clients)
Surely if they meant they’d start charging for Relays they’d mention that explicitly, and not use the term “remote streaming”?
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The Plex Relay is enabled by default and is used anytime people can’t directly connect to your server like if your port forwarding is screwed up.
Tailscale.
you can add 3 friends on the free tier of tailscale. might work for some people but others might have to pay for tailscale.
does anyone know is it possible to get around issue by running headscale yourself? can you add as many friends as you like then? maybe something like netbird might be a better option since its fully self hosted?
Its a lot simpler then that. Dont add them to your tailscale account. Each user should have there own tailscale account. Then you just send them a link to share your machine (your server) with their tailnet. Then all of there devices they have added on their account can access your server.
Bonus: send them referrals and you get your device limit increased when they make a account. Which all they have to do is sign in with their google or apple account.
Reverse proxy + fail2ban
Quickly now, make jellyfin better!
Dropped this for jellyfin years ago
I got the same email.
I haven’t had plex installed for over 7 years, and I’ve NEVER used the shared libraries feature.
We noticed that you’ve accessed libraries from friends and family in the past
They’ve apparently noticed activity that’s never occurred.
Others in another thread are trying to convince me that the email is wrong, that my Plex Pass should mean everyone gets to stream for free. The email, however, kinda indicates otherwise. So who knows what’s going on over there, but either way - I’m done
The email you posted specifically says if you have PLEX Pass users can stream for free.
Per the email text and Plex’s policy, they are correct - only Server Owners need the Pass.
That said I moved to Jellyfin months ago when they announced it.
Except I have a pass and my users are still getting the email. So either they’re incompetent sending out the emails, they are trying to trick my users into thinking they need to pay, or they’re lying and they will need to pay eventually… All of those reasons tell me it’s time to stop using Plex.
Yeah, they shot an email to everyone with an account, it’s pretty normal. It explicitly says:
Alternatively, server owners can buy a Plex pass
Which is pretty clear language
Only the server owner needs a plex pass, it says that in the email.
I don’t quite understand your confusion, they sent the email to everyone with an account. The email indicates clearly that if a server owner has a Plex pass, the users do not need it. The email is not “wrong”.
Instead of taking a minute to just read the entire email, they decided to go immediately to the internet to complain. Then when people explained to them multiple times what is going on they decided to argue with them instead of ya know reading the email. The internet is alive and well.
My users are upset, and that makes me upset. I’ve been fielding calls and messages from them for the last hour where they’re worried they have to start paying. So yeah, I don’t really care that it doesn’t apply to them, Plex sent an email that to the average user looks like they need to start paying. That was a shitty move on their part.
They could have done a banner on each client if they connected to a non-plex pass server and said “Hey starting in a few days, this won’t be free”, and left plex pass ones alone. They could have narrowed the emails down to “If you’ve connected to a free server in the last year”. It appears that they just blasted it out. I know for a fact that one of the accounts has never connected to a free server.e
And all of that is ignoring that it was free for a decade already, so why is it suddenly a “premium” service. So yeah, they bungled the entire situation, and I’m out.
Your users are upset? Either they’re damn entitled, or you’re charging them like one of those “streaming” services.
Who gets upset with an email when it clearly states what’s going on regarding the Plex Pass.
Funny to hear all the complaining from people about Plex. I’ve been using it for years and bought a lifetime pass years ago because I wanted to support them. If you’ve been using it for so long and loved it, I question why you never bought a pass?
Your users shouldn’t be upset because nothing has changed for them. It shouldn’t be the end of the world to tell your users that nothing has changed. None of my users have reached out.
I’ll agree that they should have only sent it to affected users.
Your users might be more upset that you’re pulling the plug and will require technically involved setups such as tailscale for Jellyfin. Gotta pick your battles.
The email says that if the admin/owner of the plex server you stream from has a Plex Pass then nothing changes.
