What part of the definition is wrong? Damn I provided the dictionary excerpt for you only to go back to that not understanding stuff again.
You said
“Meanwhile, Iran isn’t a proxy war because Iran is not a Russian proxy. Russia does not control the government in Iran or make decisions for Iranians. Amazing that you don’t even understand what the word proxy means.”
See now a normal person with normal reading comprehension would read this as" this person thinks the other party has to have control of one of the governments fighting in the war for it to be a proxy war" and see I provided this definition to show you no, that is not the case. That’s not what proxy means. My “western education” you claim I’m a victim to actually taught me that in a fifth grade civics class.
You see proxy war doesn’t mean that one of the parties using the other party to fight on their behalf means that they own or control them. It means that they see an opportunity to help an enemy of their enemy defeat that enemy.
You could read the definition a couple more times I posted it for your benefit so that you can learn something.
“Amazing you don’t know what proxy means”
Lol I love doing this because if you can actually get through without getting blocked you can see firsthand the lack of understanding about very basic words and concepts but oh boy it won’t stop the ml crowd from trying anyway then when you pull up definitions to prove them wrong they act like you pulled it up because YOU didn’t know when you literally told them what it meant right before that.
Honestly dude it has to take work to make yourself stay so ignorant of facts.
Yes, a proxy literally does mean that one party is using another. That’s what makes them the proxy. I guess you’ve run into your cognitive limits here. I do appreciate that you love being the court jester. It’s good to embrace your strengths.
Oh honey. You are so close to getting it. Let me help you.
Russia and Iran are NOT fighting the same war. They are two separate countries with separate agendas who happen to hate some of the same people. That is called an alliance. Not a proxy relationship.
Russia is fighting Ukraine. Iran is not fighting Ukraine. Iran sends Russia some drones because Iran wants to annoy the West. That is arms sales with extra steps. Russia does not control Iran’s decision to do that. Iran could stop tomorrow and Russia could do absolutely nothing about it.
Now flip it around. Who is Iran fighting? They are fighting Israel through Hezbollah and the Houthis. Is Russia in that fight? No. Russia is sitting on the sidelines sipping tea. Russia is not telling Hezbollah when to launch rockets. Russia is not funding the Houthis. Iran is doing all of that on its own.
So ask yourself. If Russia is not controlling Iran and Russia is not fighting Iran’s war then how is Russia the master and Iran the proxy? The answer is it is not. You are trying to apply a definition to a relationship that does not fit and then calling everyone else dumb for pointing it out.
You want to call Iran a Russian proxy so badly that you forgot what a proxy actually is. A proxy does the work for the master. Iran does its own work for its own reasons. That is not a proxy. That is just a country with a pulse.
Oh bit see by Yandex own definition you are still flat ass wrong and don’t grasp what you are talking out of your ass about!
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
Go ahead and tell me Yandex is full of lies and western propaganda or something. It would just be another cherry on top for the mental gymnastics.
If USA is fighting a proxy war by supplying Ukraine with weapons, then yes Russia is fighting a proxy war by supplying Iran with weapons. (Hope Iran wins btw in case you confuse my stating facts with my personal beliefs again.)
Because even by those opinions of other generals on what makes a proxy war a proxy war then helping someone who is fighting against your enemy while that enemy is fighting a proxy war against you makes you a party involved in a proxy war. Its simple.
A war instigated by a major power that does not itself participate.
Every single dictionary in every single language gives the same definition by the way bud.
So supplying weapons to a third party is enough to constitute a proxy war. Been the same word and meaning for a long time.
So if USA is fighting proxy with Ukraine how then is Russia not fighting a proxy with Iran?
USA doesn’t control Ukraine either. In fact Russia pinky swore not to ever invade it and did anyway so we give them weapons. Sounds like Russia should have stayed the fuck out of a country that never wanted them there.
Same thing with USA/Israel in Iran. Absolutely bullshit we should have never been there and killing little girls is beyond fucked up. So I don’t blame Russia helping Iran, I support it.
But see you seem to think one is ok and the other isn’t. That one is a proxy war and the other isn’t.
It doesn’t. It gives them weapons because Russia invaded them. Same way Russia gives Iran weapons because US and Israel is fucking with them.
Do you think I don’t support Palestine or something? Why bring up Palestine?
And yeah the same can be said for you, you think USA is controlling Ukraine when in reality they got invaded by the people who used to own them because they want the soviet union setup again. So yeah USA steps in because they don’t like Russia. They say its to help Ukraine but everyone knows what’s up. They even tried stealing future resources from them for the pleasure. That’s how proxy wars work. You use a third party to fight your enemy by supplying them with weapons and intelligence. So it kind of seems like the USA owning Ukraine or whatever you’re alluding to is the crux of your entire world view.
The very fact that USA is doing that and Russia in turn does it for Iran makes it even by those opinion piece books definition a proxy war.
Never ONCE said I hated Russia. Said they should have stayed the fuck out of the country that didn’t want them there. And if another country wants to help that country fight them so be it.
Its the exact same way with the situation with USA and Iran. USA should never have fucked with them they didn’t want them there and now if Russia is helping Iran so be it I think that’s fair.
But to deny that either one is a proxy war isnt being honest.
You went to Yandex and copied the first definition you saw. That is adorable.
Of course, even the dictionary definition says it is about support and third-party powers. That is the starting point, and you are acting like you found the rosetta stone here.
A proxy war is a political arrangement. It is not just two countries who vaguely dislike the same guy and happen to help each other out. If it were that loose then every military alliance in history is suddenly a proxy war. NATO is just a bunch of proxies. The Allies in WWII were proxies. See how stupid that sounds?
Your definition is a child’s sketch of something that takes entire books to understand. You looked that up and thought you had a mic drop while you had a flimsy entry level summary that collapses the moment you apply it to a real world scenario.
By your Yandex logic the US giving Israel weapons makes Israel an American proxy. Do you believe that? Or do you understand that Israel is a sovereign nation with its own agenda and the US just shares some of those interests? That is the exact same relationship Russia and Iran have.
The mental gymnastics here are genuinely impressive. You dismissed actual analysis and instead pulled up a search engine and acted like you discovered fire. Go read a book then come back and tell me your Yandex definition is the airtight argument you think it is. I will wait. Amazing you do not even know what proxy means.
Difference between proxy and alliance is when the wars break out. As soon as you supply weapons to someone who is fighting against a current enemy of yours its a proxy war.
Yandex says it. Google says it. Merriam Webster says it.
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
There’s a Russian source. You’re wrong. You don’t know what proxy war means but continued to fight about it anyway. A simple look in any dictionary in any language from any country in the world will shoe you you’re mistaken and yet have the audacity to talk in other comments about possessing intelligence and critical thinking skills and “approaching ideas with knowledge”
You don’t even know how to comprehend what the fuck a grade school definition of proxy war is.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
Talking about a slave of the western education system lmfaooooooo
Bud by your own definition up above you said that since Russia doesn’t tell Iran what to do with the weapons it supplies them that that isn’t a proxy.
USA doesn’t tell Ukraine what to do with weapons either. It gives them to them.
Since both wars are being helped by an opposing party to the aggressor that makes it by the literal dictionary definition a proxy war.
“It’s ok when comrades do it because we do it to help that country defend itself. When the dirty capitalist pigs do it they do it to enrich themselves” do I have that right?
The US is not just dropping off care packages and waving goodbye. Ukraine is entirely dependent on American weapons, American intelligence, and American cash. Without the US Ukraine collapses within weeks. That is the definition of a client state. The US may not micromanage every trench assault but it absolutely sets the parameters of what Ukraine can and cannot do. No ATACMS into Russian territory until Washington says so. No F-16s until Washington approves. Zelensky does not get to unilaterally escalate because the plug gets pulled if he steps out of line.
So yes. The US is fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine as the proxy. This is openly admitted by no lesser person than the Secretary of State.
What’s truly amazing here is how you just keep doubling down.
What part of the definition is wrong? Damn I provided the dictionary excerpt for you only to go back to that not understanding stuff again.
You said
“Meanwhile, Iran isn’t a proxy war because Iran is not a Russian proxy. Russia does not control the government in Iran or make decisions for Iranians. Amazing that you don’t even understand what the word proxy means.”
See now a normal person with normal reading comprehension would read this as" this person thinks the other party has to have control of one of the governments fighting in the war for it to be a proxy war" and see I provided this definition to show you no, that is not the case. That’s not what proxy means. My “western education” you claim I’m a victim to actually taught me that in a fifth grade civics class.
You see proxy war doesn’t mean that one of the parties using the other party to fight on their behalf means that they own or control them. It means that they see an opportunity to help an enemy of their enemy defeat that enemy.
You could read the definition a couple more times I posted it for your benefit so that you can learn something.
“Amazing you don’t know what proxy means”
Lol I love doing this because if you can actually get through without getting blocked you can see firsthand the lack of understanding about very basic words and concepts but oh boy it won’t stop the ml crowd from trying anyway then when you pull up definitions to prove them wrong they act like you pulled it up because YOU didn’t know when you literally told them what it meant right before that.
Honestly dude it has to take work to make yourself stay so ignorant of facts.
Yes, a proxy literally does mean that one party is using another. That’s what makes them the proxy. I guess you’ve run into your cognitive limits here. I do appreciate that you love being the court jester. It’s good to embrace your strengths.
So then explain to me how Russia wouldn’t be a proxy war since “they don’t own or control the Iran government”
For someone who knows what proxy means why did you suggest that if a country doesn’t have control of that government that it isn’t a proxy war?
Would it be a lack of understanding on what proxy is? Or is it just more “well when we do it its ok and different”
“Amazing that you don’t even know what proxy means”
Oh honey. You are so close to getting it. Let me help you.
Russia and Iran are NOT fighting the same war. They are two separate countries with separate agendas who happen to hate some of the same people. That is called an alliance. Not a proxy relationship.
Russia is fighting Ukraine. Iran is not fighting Ukraine. Iran sends Russia some drones because Iran wants to annoy the West. That is arms sales with extra steps. Russia does not control Iran’s decision to do that. Iran could stop tomorrow and Russia could do absolutely nothing about it.
Now flip it around. Who is Iran fighting? They are fighting Israel through Hezbollah and the Houthis. Is Russia in that fight? No. Russia is sitting on the sidelines sipping tea. Russia is not telling Hezbollah when to launch rockets. Russia is not funding the Houthis. Iran is doing all of that on its own.
So ask yourself. If Russia is not controlling Iran and Russia is not fighting Iran’s war then how is Russia the master and Iran the proxy? The answer is it is not. You are trying to apply a definition to a relationship that does not fit and then calling everyone else dumb for pointing it out.
You want to call Iran a Russian proxy so badly that you forgot what a proxy actually is. A proxy does the work for the master. Iran does its own work for its own reasons. That is not a proxy. That is just a country with a pulse.
Oh bit see by Yandex own definition you are still flat ass wrong and don’t grasp what you are talking out of your ass about!
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
Go ahead and tell me Yandex is full of lies and western propaganda or something. It would just be another cherry on top for the mental gymnastics.
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
here’s an idea, why don’t you go read a book instead of continuing making a clown of yourself in public here’s one https://www.sup.org/books/politics/proxy-war/excerpt/introduction-excerpt
If USA is fighting a proxy war by supplying Ukraine with weapons, then yes Russia is fighting a proxy war by supplying Iran with weapons. (Hope Iran wins btw in case you confuse my stating facts with my personal beliefs again.)
Because even by those opinions of other generals on what makes a proxy war a proxy war then helping someone who is fighting against your enemy while that enemy is fighting a proxy war against you makes you a party involved in a proxy war. Its simple.
Russia doesn’t have to Give commands
Because,
proxy war
noun
Every single dictionary in every single language gives the same definition by the way bud.
So supplying weapons to a third party is enough to constitute a proxy war. Been the same word and meaning for a long time.
So if USA is fighting proxy with Ukraine how then is Russia not fighting a proxy with Iran?
USA doesn’t control Ukraine either. In fact Russia pinky swore not to ever invade it and did anyway so we give them weapons. Sounds like Russia should have stayed the fuck out of a country that never wanted them there.
Same thing with USA/Israel in Iran. Absolutely bullshit we should have never been there and killing little girls is beyond fucked up. So I don’t blame Russia helping Iran, I support it.
But see you seem to think one is ok and the other isn’t. That one is a proxy war and the other isn’t.
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
There it is.
Now your increasingly funny behavior makes sense.
You’re in the “ukraine+palestine” camp, and “usa does not control ukraine” is the load-bearing crux of your worldview.
It doesn’t. It gives them weapons because Russia invaded them. Same way Russia gives Iran weapons because US and Israel is fucking with them.
Do you think I don’t support Palestine or something? Why bring up Palestine?
And yeah the same can be said for you, you think USA is controlling Ukraine when in reality they got invaded by the people who used to own them because they want the soviet union setup again. So yeah USA steps in because they don’t like Russia. They say its to help Ukraine but everyone knows what’s up. They even tried stealing future resources from them for the pleasure. That’s how proxy wars work. You use a third party to fight your enemy by supplying them with weapons and intelligence. So it kind of seems like the USA owning Ukraine or whatever you’re alluding to is the crux of your entire world view.
The very fact that USA is doing that and Russia in turn does it for Iran makes it even by those opinion piece books definition a proxy war.
Facts is facts.
This is why:
You’re in the Anti-War-ism quadrant, since you mentioned you’re on the side of iran, and you hate russia because
So you’re the standard kind of radlib. The kind that worships putin as some sort of “evil deity of communism”.
Never ONCE said I hated Russia. Said they should have stayed the fuck out of the country that didn’t want them there. And if another country wants to help that country fight them so be it.
Its the exact same way with the situation with USA and Iran. USA should never have fucked with them they didn’t want them there and now if Russia is helping Iran so be it I think that’s fair.
But to deny that either one is a proxy war isnt being honest.
You went to Yandex and copied the first definition you saw. That is adorable.
Of course, even the dictionary definition says it is about support and third-party powers. That is the starting point, and you are acting like you found the rosetta stone here.
A proxy war is a political arrangement. It is not just two countries who vaguely dislike the same guy and happen to help each other out. If it were that loose then every military alliance in history is suddenly a proxy war. NATO is just a bunch of proxies. The Allies in WWII were proxies. See how stupid that sounds?
The scholarship is very clear on this. Tyrone L. Groh in Proxy War: The Least Bad Option does not just say support like your Yandex definition. He defines proxy war as directing the use of force by a politically motivated, local actor to indirectly influence political affairs in the target state. There is a hierarchy there with a principal and an agent. Not just two buddies high fiving because they both hate the same person. But of course, reading actual books is too much to be expected from somebody like you.
Your definition is a child’s sketch of something that takes entire books to understand. You looked that up and thought you had a mic drop while you had a flimsy entry level summary that collapses the moment you apply it to a real world scenario.
By your Yandex logic the US giving Israel weapons makes Israel an American proxy. Do you believe that? Or do you understand that Israel is a sovereign nation with its own agenda and the US just shares some of those interests? That is the exact same relationship Russia and Iran have.
The mental gymnastics here are genuinely impressive. You dismissed actual analysis and instead pulled up a search engine and acted like you discovered fire. Go read a book then come back and tell me your Yandex definition is the airtight argument you think it is. I will wait. Amazing you do not even know what proxy means.
Difference between proxy and alliance is when the wars break out. As soon as you supply weapons to someone who is fighting against a current enemy of yours its a proxy war.
Yandex says it. Google says it. Merriam Webster says it.
You were wrong.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
go read a book for once in your life, this is so utterly embarassing
There’s no proxy wars in Harry Potter, your recommendation doesn’t change things much.
An opinion piece doesn’t change shit. And isn’t the authority on the subject.
They include opinion pieces in newspapers as well.
The definition is what you didn’t k know
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy is”
I literally explain this to you above. Try engaging with that stochastic parrot.
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
There’s a Russian source. You’re wrong. You don’t know what proxy war means but continued to fight about it anyway. A simple look in any dictionary in any language from any country in the world will shoe you you’re mistaken and yet have the audacity to talk in other comments about possessing intelligence and critical thinking skills and “approaching ideas with knowledge”
You don’t even know how to comprehend what the fuck a grade school definition of proxy war is.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
Talking about a slave of the western education system lmfaooooooo
here’s an idea, why don’t you go read a book instead of continuing making a clown of yourself in public here’s one https://www.sup.org/books/politics/proxy-war/excerpt/introduction-excerpt
Ah yes I have opinion pieces I could write about the definition of communists, doesn’t mean any definitions change.
This is a guys opinion piece.
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
Bud by your own definition up above you said that since Russia doesn’t tell Iran what to do with the weapons it supplies them that that isn’t a proxy.
USA doesn’t tell Ukraine what to do with weapons either. It gives them to them.
Since both wars are being helped by an opposing party to the aggressor that makes it by the literal dictionary definition a proxy war.
“It’s ok when comrades do it because we do it to help that country defend itself. When the dirty capitalist pigs do it they do it to enrich themselves” do I have that right?
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
here’s an idea, why don’t you go read a book instead of continuing making a clown of yourself in public here’s one https://www.sup.org/books/politics/proxy-war/excerpt/introduction-excerpt
The US is not just dropping off care packages and waving goodbye. Ukraine is entirely dependent on American weapons, American intelligence, and American cash. Without the US Ukraine collapses within weeks. That is the definition of a client state. The US may not micromanage every trench assault but it absolutely sets the parameters of what Ukraine can and cannot do. No ATACMS into Russian territory until Washington says so. No F-16s until Washington approves. Zelensky does not get to unilaterally escalate because the plug gets pulled if he steps out of line.
So yes. The US is fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine as the proxy. This is openly admitted by no lesser person than the Secretary of State.
What’s truly amazing here is how you just keep doubling down.