If USA is fighting a proxy war by supplying Ukraine with weapons, then yes Russia is fighting a proxy war by supplying Iran with weapons. (Hope Iran wins btw in case you confuse my stating facts with my personal beliefs again.)
Because even by those opinions of other generals on what makes a proxy war a proxy war then helping someone who is fighting against your enemy while that enemy is fighting a proxy war against you makes you a party involved in a proxy war. Its simple.
A war instigated by a major power that does not itself participate.
Every single dictionary in every single language gives the same definition by the way bud.
So supplying weapons to a third party is enough to constitute a proxy war. Been the same word and meaning for a long time.
So if USA is fighting proxy with Ukraine how then is Russia not fighting a proxy with Iran?
USA doesn’t control Ukraine either. In fact Russia pinky swore not to ever invade it and did anyway so we give them weapons. Sounds like Russia should have stayed the fuck out of a country that never wanted them there.
Same thing with USA/Israel in Iran. Absolutely bullshit we should have never been there and killing little girls is beyond fucked up. So I don’t blame Russia helping Iran, I support it.
But see you seem to think one is ok and the other isn’t. That one is a proxy war and the other isn’t.
It doesn’t. It gives them weapons because Russia invaded them. Same way Russia gives Iran weapons because US and Israel is fucking with them.
Do you think I don’t support Palestine or something? Why bring up Palestine?
And yeah the same can be said for you, you think USA is controlling Ukraine when in reality they got invaded by the people who used to own them because they want the soviet union setup again. So yeah USA steps in because they don’t like Russia. They say its to help Ukraine but everyone knows what’s up. They even tried stealing future resources from them for the pleasure. That’s how proxy wars work. You use a third party to fight your enemy by supplying them with weapons and intelligence. So it kind of seems like the USA owning Ukraine or whatever you’re alluding to is the crux of your entire world view.
The very fact that USA is doing that and Russia in turn does it for Iran makes it even by those opinion piece books definition a proxy war.
Never ONCE said I hated Russia. Said they should have stayed the fuck out of the country that didn’t want them there. And if another country wants to help that country fight them so be it.
Its the exact same way with the situation with USA and Iran. USA should never have fucked with them they didn’t want them there and now if Russia is helping Iran so be it I think that’s fair.
But to deny that either one is a proxy war isnt being honest.
You went to Yandex and copied the first definition you saw. That is adorable.
Of course, even the dictionary definition says it is about support and third-party powers. That is the starting point, and you are acting like you found the rosetta stone here.
A proxy war is a political arrangement. It is not just two countries who vaguely dislike the same guy and happen to help each other out. If it were that loose then every military alliance in history is suddenly a proxy war. NATO is just a bunch of proxies. The Allies in WWII were proxies. See how stupid that sounds?
Your definition is a child’s sketch of something that takes entire books to understand. You looked that up and thought you had a mic drop while you had a flimsy entry level summary that collapses the moment you apply it to a real world scenario.
By your Yandex logic the US giving Israel weapons makes Israel an American proxy. Do you believe that? Or do you understand that Israel is a sovereign nation with its own agenda and the US just shares some of those interests? That is the exact same relationship Russia and Iran have.
The mental gymnastics here are genuinely impressive. You dismissed actual analysis and instead pulled up a search engine and acted like you discovered fire. Go read a book then come back and tell me your Yandex definition is the airtight argument you think it is. I will wait. Amazing you do not even know what proxy means.
Difference between proxy and alliance is when the wars break out. As soon as you supply weapons to someone who is fighting against a current enemy of yours its a proxy war.
Yandex says it. Google says it. Merriam Webster says it.
Since you appear to claim that Groh is not an authoritative source, then perhaps you’d prefer Andrew Mumford. Who in in Proxy Warfare spends an entire chapter titled What is Proxy War? unpacking the levels of engagement and making it painfully obvious that not all indirect assistance qualifies. Or perhaps, Geraint Hughes and his book My Enemy’s Enemy: Proxy Warfare in International Politics which builds a whole framework around the specific strategic relationships that turn a conflict into a proxy war. And of course, we can’t forget the Routledge Handbook of Proxy Wars which is four hundred and fifty five pages long and exists entirely because the concept is so much more complicated than your little copy pasted internet definition could ever dream of being.
But sure, a definition you googled frantically is so much more authoritative 🤣
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
There’s a Russian source. You’re wrong. You don’t know what proxy war means but continued to fight about it anyway. A simple look in any dictionary in any language from any country in the world will shoe you you’re mistaken and yet have the audacity to talk in other comments about possessing intelligence and critical thinking skills and “approaching ideas with knowledge”
You don’t even know how to comprehend what the fuck a grade school definition of proxy war is.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
Talking about a slave of the western education system lmfaooooooo
Bud by your own definition up above you said that since Russia doesn’t tell Iran what to do with the weapons it supplies them that that isn’t a proxy.
USA doesn’t tell Ukraine what to do with weapons either. It gives them to them.
Since both wars are being helped by an opposing party to the aggressor that makes it by the literal dictionary definition a proxy war.
“It’s ok when comrades do it because we do it to help that country defend itself. When the dirty capitalist pigs do it they do it to enrich themselves” do I have that right?
The US is not just dropping off care packages and waving goodbye. Ukraine is entirely dependent on American weapons, American intelligence, and American cash. Without the US Ukraine collapses within weeks. That is the definition of a client state. The US may not micromanage every trench assault but it absolutely sets the parameters of what Ukraine can and cannot do. No ATACMS into Russian territory until Washington says so. No F-16s until Washington approves. Zelensky does not get to unilaterally escalate because the plug gets pulled if he steps out of line.
So yes. The US is fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine as the proxy. This is openly admitted by no lesser person than the Secretary of State.
What’s truly amazing here is how you just keep doubling down.
If USA is fighting a proxy war by supplying Ukraine with weapons, then yes Russia is fighting a proxy war by supplying Iran with weapons. (Hope Iran wins btw in case you confuse my stating facts with my personal beliefs again.)
Because even by those opinions of other generals on what makes a proxy war a proxy war then helping someone who is fighting against your enemy while that enemy is fighting a proxy war against you makes you a party involved in a proxy war. Its simple.
Russia doesn’t have to Give commands
Because,
proxy war
noun
Every single dictionary in every single language gives the same definition by the way bud.
So supplying weapons to a third party is enough to constitute a proxy war. Been the same word and meaning for a long time.
So if USA is fighting proxy with Ukraine how then is Russia not fighting a proxy with Iran?
USA doesn’t control Ukraine either. In fact Russia pinky swore not to ever invade it and did anyway so we give them weapons. Sounds like Russia should have stayed the fuck out of a country that never wanted them there.
Same thing with USA/Israel in Iran. Absolutely bullshit we should have never been there and killing little girls is beyond fucked up. So I don’t blame Russia helping Iran, I support it.
But see you seem to think one is ok and the other isn’t. That one is a proxy war and the other isn’t.
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
There it is.
Now your increasingly funny behavior makes sense.
You’re in the “ukraine+palestine” camp, and “usa does not control ukraine” is the load-bearing crux of your worldview.
It doesn’t. It gives them weapons because Russia invaded them. Same way Russia gives Iran weapons because US and Israel is fucking with them.
Do you think I don’t support Palestine or something? Why bring up Palestine?
And yeah the same can be said for you, you think USA is controlling Ukraine when in reality they got invaded by the people who used to own them because they want the soviet union setup again. So yeah USA steps in because they don’t like Russia. They say its to help Ukraine but everyone knows what’s up. They even tried stealing future resources from them for the pleasure. That’s how proxy wars work. You use a third party to fight your enemy by supplying them with weapons and intelligence. So it kind of seems like the USA owning Ukraine or whatever you’re alluding to is the crux of your entire world view.
The very fact that USA is doing that and Russia in turn does it for Iran makes it even by those opinion piece books definition a proxy war.
Facts is facts.
This is why:
You’re in the Anti-War-ism quadrant, since you mentioned you’re on the side of iran, and you hate russia because
So you’re the standard kind of radlib. The kind that worships putin as some sort of “evil deity of communism”.
Never ONCE said I hated Russia. Said they should have stayed the fuck out of the country that didn’t want them there. And if another country wants to help that country fight them so be it.
Its the exact same way with the situation with USA and Iran. USA should never have fucked with them they didn’t want them there and now if Russia is helping Iran so be it I think that’s fair.
But to deny that either one is a proxy war isnt being honest.
You went to Yandex and copied the first definition you saw. That is adorable.
Of course, even the dictionary definition says it is about support and third-party powers. That is the starting point, and you are acting like you found the rosetta stone here.
A proxy war is a political arrangement. It is not just two countries who vaguely dislike the same guy and happen to help each other out. If it were that loose then every military alliance in history is suddenly a proxy war. NATO is just a bunch of proxies. The Allies in WWII were proxies. See how stupid that sounds?
The scholarship is very clear on this. Tyrone L. Groh in Proxy War: The Least Bad Option does not just say support like your Yandex definition. He defines proxy war as directing the use of force by a politically motivated, local actor to indirectly influence political affairs in the target state. There is a hierarchy there with a principal and an agent. Not just two buddies high fiving because they both hate the same person. But of course, reading actual books is too much to be expected from somebody like you.
Your definition is a child’s sketch of something that takes entire books to understand. You looked that up and thought you had a mic drop while you had a flimsy entry level summary that collapses the moment you apply it to a real world scenario.
By your Yandex logic the US giving Israel weapons makes Israel an American proxy. Do you believe that? Or do you understand that Israel is a sovereign nation with its own agenda and the US just shares some of those interests? That is the exact same relationship Russia and Iran have.
The mental gymnastics here are genuinely impressive. You dismissed actual analysis and instead pulled up a search engine and acted like you discovered fire. Go read a book then come back and tell me your Yandex definition is the airtight argument you think it is. I will wait. Amazing you do not even know what proxy means.
Difference between proxy and alliance is when the wars break out. As soon as you supply weapons to someone who is fighting against a current enemy of yours its a proxy war.
Yandex says it. Google says it. Merriam Webster says it.
You were wrong.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
go read a book for once in your life, this is so utterly embarassing
There’s no proxy wars in Harry Potter, your recommendation doesn’t change things much.
Is better to recommend to watch Star Wars.
There’s a proxy war in Clone Wars when the Republic funded, trained and armed a rebel cell to overthrow their Separatist allied government.
that’s right really have to lean into liberal lore here
An opinion piece doesn’t change shit. And isn’t the authority on the subject.
They include opinion pieces in newspapers as well.
The definition is what you didn’t k know
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy is”
Since you appear to claim that Groh is not an authoritative source, then perhaps you’d prefer Andrew Mumford. Who in in Proxy Warfare spends an entire chapter titled What is Proxy War? unpacking the levels of engagement and making it painfully obvious that not all indirect assistance qualifies. Or perhaps, Geraint Hughes and his book My Enemy’s Enemy: Proxy Warfare in International Politics which builds a whole framework around the specific strategic relationships that turn a conflict into a proxy war. And of course, we can’t forget the Routledge Handbook of Proxy Wars which is four hundred and fifty five pages long and exists entirely because the concept is so much more complicated than your little copy pasted internet definition could ever dream of being.
But sure, a definition you googled frantically is so much more authoritative 🤣
I literally explain this to you above. Try engaging with that stochastic parrot.
A proxy war is an armed conflict where at least one of the belligerents is directed or supported by an external third-party power. In the term “proxy war,” a belligerent with external support is the proxy. Both belligerents in a proxy war can be considered proxies if both are receiving foreign military aid from a third-party country. 12
There’s a Russian source. You’re wrong. You don’t know what proxy war means but continued to fight about it anyway. A simple look in any dictionary in any language from any country in the world will shoe you you’re mistaken and yet have the audacity to talk in other comments about possessing intelligence and critical thinking skills and “approaching ideas with knowledge”
You don’t even know how to comprehend what the fuck a grade school definition of proxy war is.
“Amazing you don’t even know what a proxy is”
Talking about a slave of the western education system lmfaooooooo
here’s an idea, why don’t you go read a book instead of continuing making a clown of yourself in public here’s one https://www.sup.org/books/politics/proxy-war/excerpt/introduction-excerpt
Ah yes I have opinion pieces I could write about the definition of communists, doesn’t mean any definitions change.
This is a guys opinion piece.
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
Bud by your own definition up above you said that since Russia doesn’t tell Iran what to do with the weapons it supplies them that that isn’t a proxy.
USA doesn’t tell Ukraine what to do with weapons either. It gives them to them.
Since both wars are being helped by an opposing party to the aggressor that makes it by the literal dictionary definition a proxy war.
“It’s ok when comrades do it because we do it to help that country defend itself. When the dirty capitalist pigs do it they do it to enrich themselves” do I have that right?
“Amazing you don’t even know what proxy means”
here’s an idea, why don’t you go read a book instead of continuing making a clown of yourself in public here’s one https://www.sup.org/books/politics/proxy-war/excerpt/introduction-excerpt
The US is not just dropping off care packages and waving goodbye. Ukraine is entirely dependent on American weapons, American intelligence, and American cash. Without the US Ukraine collapses within weeks. That is the definition of a client state. The US may not micromanage every trench assault but it absolutely sets the parameters of what Ukraine can and cannot do. No ATACMS into Russian territory until Washington says so. No F-16s until Washington approves. Zelensky does not get to unilaterally escalate because the plug gets pulled if he steps out of line.
So yes. The US is fighting a proxy war against Russia using Ukraine as the proxy. This is openly admitted by no lesser person than the Secretary of State.
What’s truly amazing here is how you just keep doubling down.