The foreign minister called a 10-point blueprint promoted by Kyiv ‘not feasible’, and added that a UN proposal to revive the Ukraine grain deal would not work.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has formally ruled out talks with Russia after it illegally declared four Ukrainian regions to be part of Russia.
Zelensky’s decree released Tuesday declares that holding negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin has become impossible after his decision to annex four regions of Ukraine. The decree also approves the decision of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council to strengthen Ukrainian defenses and seek more weapons from the country’s Western allies in response to Moscow’s move.
Ah so “has become impossible” is now “has been made illegal”. Tankie text comprehension, I presume.
time to remind people that zelensky made having peace negotiations with putin ILLEGAL
Can you quote the part of the article which made you think so? I don’t see the article saying what you claim it says.
A reminder from the KidsPost team: Our stories are geared to 7- to 13-year-olds.
It’s alright if you are younger than that. Otherwise, I think all you achieved is reminding people how dishonest and untrustworthy lemmygrad users can be. You would have helped your cause more had you not made that comment.
“Russia’s upper house of parliament on Tuesday voted to support the treaties that make the Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine part of Russia.”
I guess if we ignore the two comments pointing out how the article doesn’t state what he claims Zelensky said, then yeah nobody has any arguments.
Or were you expecting arguments against a fictional statement? Because I can come back with some just as fictional counter-arguments if that’s what you were looking for.
Come on, not even zelensky had any hope they would accept this peace plan. They’re basically asking Russia to stop the war and give back all the territory they occupied. The Ukrainian counter offensive stopped at a brick wall, the Russians have no reason at all to do this.
There have been a lot of exceptions. However the majority of wars are longer as if you don’t think you can win surrender terms are generally better than death.
Sure, if you fight in the middle of the desert with little cover and no mud, progress is fast once you cut through the defensive lines. Vs fighting in mud and forests.
Western people are funny to say the least, i dont know why, if it has something to do if the fact u guys always lived in such a privileged position that u can live in a fantasy world.
Try to be pragmatic. I never said it had to be quick, I never said this is unwinnable right now, I just said that makes no sense for the Russians to accept this terms right now, and Ukrainians are not stupid, they know this. Or were u expecting putin to wake up this morning feeling bad for what he have done and just move his troops out of Ukraine?
They didn’t have any hope because Putin is a warmonger. Any “peace plan” that Russia would find acceptable would just delay the inevitable and give Russia time to build back up, they’ve already shown their cards. Russia needs to give up on its territorial aspirations and give back what it’s stolen. Russia could’ve held onto Crimea even had it just not invaded Ukraine, the rest of the world had basically turned a blind eye to it (it wasn’t right, but that was the reality), instead they get to watch their military turn to dust, just like Putin will be doing within a decade.
I’m not saying that all, but facts on the ground were that, 2014–2022, Russia had control of Crimea and nobody was going to do anything about that for fear of getting into conflict with Russia. That Crimea even “passed” into Russian hands without much of a fight from the international community is probably what emboldened Putin to go after the rest of Ukraine. What I’m saying is that had he stuck to just that sort of low-level “piecemeal” approach to carving out sections of Ukraine, like what was do e with Crimea, he wouldn’t have gotten nearly the amount of international backlash that he got.
Is Crimea part of Ukraine? Yes, but when it comes to international borders, facts on the ground are what matter in the long-run. Had Putin bided his time, eventually it would’ve just been accepted as fact. Nobody else would’ve ever cared enough to start a war over it. With Putin going for all-out-war though, he’s revealed Russia’s military weakness and facts on the ground have become mutable again, giving us the chance that we’ll hopefully see Crimea come back into Ukraine.
I’m not judging who is or who isn’t a warmonger or whatever, let’s just be pragmatic, it makes no sense at all for Russia to accept those terms. Were u expecting the Russian Govt. to suddenly wake up one morning feeling bad for what they’ve done and just move the troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea who’s under Russian control for over a decade now, and say “sorry, my bad”? This 10 point plan they “proposed” was only made so western media can say they’re trying to stop the war, which they aren’t. And again, I’m not saying they have to stop the war, I’m just analyzing things objectively.
I’m saying Putin can stop this war right now by going home. This is all Putins’ fault supported by oligarchs. It makes complete sense for putin to accept these terms, because he will eventually be forced to.
The counteroffensive is moving forward slowly because the Russians put a ton of mines and trenches in the way. Plus they committed their best troops to stopping it. Still Ukraine is slowly moving forward in the south.
I wouldn’t want to be there right now on either side. But basically the Ukrainians are winning because their artillery is better. Once Ukraine moves their artillery within range of the highway along the Sea of Azov, the troops protecting Crimea will have their supplies threatened. This is the general plan and they’re getting closer.
I never said this in unwinnable, but don’t make any sense to propose a peace plan to Russia right now demanding them to return all the land they occupied. Ukrainians are not dumb, they know this, this peace “proposal” is just a piece of propaganda to western media to say they are trying to start peace talks with Russia or some shit. The Russian ministry answered this out of anger but he’s not wrong, the Ukraine is only getting their territory back if they can put a huge pressure on Russians, possibly only if they can manage to make Russia fear to be attacked on their own territory. And even if this happens we have to trust Russians won’t nuke Ukraine to protect their own territory.
They’re making slow progress constantly but the front lines are barely moving. There’s obviously a chance for a big break through as the first defences are always the heaviest and it should get easier after that, but there’s still a long way to go, and they’re both taking heavy casualties every single day.
There’s obviously a chance for a big break through as the first defences are always the heaviest and it should get easier after that
That’s the opposite of Russia’s defensive doctrine, which would only be exacerbated further by the ability to deploy reserves where necessary. It could be a different story if Ukraine wasn’t having to commit their exploitation forces just to try to reach the first lines of defense; even if they break through tomorrow they won’t really have the manpower to do anything with it.
The only actual progress being made is in destroying the equipment NATO managed to cobble together and losing trained manpower. Even if a miracle happened and Ukraine managed to make some breakthrough, what exactly is it going to be consolidated with given that they spent past three and a half months beating their head against a wall. They’ve already thrown in all the reserve brigades that were originally meant to come in and consolidate the gains now.
Either Putin propagandists have now infiltrated mainstream liberal media or you have no clue regarding the state of the war, I’m going to go with the latter here
holy shit stop invading and leave? OUTRAGEOUS! the nerve of zelensky to ask for what is Ukraine’s! I think you should go join the trenches to show how mad you are!
Zelensky knowing that there wasn’t a hope in hell of Russians accepting this is false? You know it, I know it, we all know it. It’s just politics. Of course Zelensky has to offer something, even if he knows they won’t bite.
The Russians have to claw something out of this debacle to sue for peace. And I hope the Ukrainians give them nothing, and take back the Crimea while they’re at it.
No, see when he says “a fairer distribution of global benefits” that needs to start with distributing ukrainian benefits to russian oligarchs obviously!
Why do you want to force the people of Crimea and the Donbas to be subjected to a government that they despise? Why don’t those people have any right to self determination?
you mean like the Uyghurs? genocide is really fucked, what are you doing about the Uyghurs?
edit: no-one is forcing russian simps in Crimea to move anywhere you absolute nonce, they can live free under ukraine or go suck balls in russia if thats what they want
the ukranian military were bombing civilians? please, lets see a non-cooker source.
Also i love you mention 2014, i wonder what relevant action happened then that made the whole area a shitstorm? i dunno, must just be a coincidence, surely nothing to do with the incompetant half-strength military staffed by drunk conscripts that has been shooting rockets at hospitals and malls for the past 18 months
edit: also respond to the Uyghur situation. by default you are condoning genocide
But remember, it’s the rest of the world that’s warmongering! Also up is down!
“The rest of the world”
time to remind people that zelensky made having peace negotiations with putin ILLEGAL
https://archive.is/20221006023710/https://www.washingtonpost.com/kidspost/2022/10/04/russia-annexation-ukraine-peace-talks/
Ah so “has become impossible” is now “has been made illegal”. Tankie text comprehension, I presume.
Can you quote the part of the article which made you think so? I don’t see the article saying what you claim it says.
It’s alright if you are younger than that. Otherwise, I think all you achieved is reminding people how dishonest and untrustworthy lemmygrad users can be. You would have helped your cause more had you not made that comment.
This is the end of this thread. There’s no comeback to this.
Неужели так трудно понять чтение, товарищ?
Nobody actually has any argument against this except ad hominems, which is usually fairly telling.
I guess if we ignore the two comments pointing out how the article doesn’t state what he claims Zelensky said, then yeah nobody has any arguments.
Or were you expecting arguments against a fictional statement? Because I can come back with some just as fictional counter-arguments if that’s what you were looking for.
They cannot see those comments same as vampires can’t see themselves in a mirror.
Yeah, lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml ban people for posting dissenting comments. So their users can believe no dissenting opinions exist.
It’s a bid sad they cannot spot that the article, which is very short and written for children, does not say what they claim it says, but well.
So?
…
Exactly.
There really is nothing to negotiate anyway.
Ukraine does not want to give up territory.
Giving Russia anything for it is tatamount to paying a ransom. It would only encourage Russia to invade again in a decade or less.
Russia turning around and giving up the territory without gaining anything is just accepting complete defeat. They won’t do that.
So it’s a battle of attrition, both morale and economic.
Tankies gonna tank. @Krause please go fuck yourself somewhere else.
Get back under your stone on lemmygrad
Yea they are.
Come on, not even zelensky had any hope they would accept this peace plan. They’re basically asking Russia to stop the war and give back all the territory they occupied. The Ukrainian counter offensive stopped at a brick wall, the Russians have no reason at all to do this.
Pretty crumbly and porous brick wall, there. And they apparently neglected to build it around Sevastopol.
War is normally a slow process. In historical terms Ukraine is making good progress… it is mostly fiction where wars are one in a couple days.
Except Israel.
There have been a lot of exceptions. However the majority of wars are longer as if you don’t think you can win surrender terms are generally better than death.
Sure, if you fight in the middle of the desert with little cover and no mud, progress is fast once you cut through the defensive lines. Vs fighting in mud and forests.
Hmm, let’s just see what an actual war historian has to say about that https://www.agonmag.com/p/vlahos-ukraine-shares-same-fate-as
Western people are funny to say the least, i dont know why, if it has something to do if the fact u guys always lived in such a privileged position that u can live in a fantasy world.
Try to be pragmatic. I never said it had to be quick, I never said this is unwinnable right now, I just said that makes no sense for the Russians to accept this terms right now, and Ukrainians are not stupid, they know this. Or were u expecting putin to wake up this morning feeling bad for what he have done and just move his troops out of Ukraine?
They didn’t have any hope because Putin is a warmonger. Any “peace plan” that Russia would find acceptable would just delay the inevitable and give Russia time to build back up, they’ve already shown their cards. Russia needs to give up on its territorial aspirations and give back what it’s stolen. Russia could’ve held onto Crimea even had it just not invaded Ukraine, the rest of the world had basically turned a blind eye to it (it wasn’t right, but that was the reality), instead they get to watch their military turn to dust, just like Putin will be doing within a decade.
So you’re saying Crimea is not part of Ukraine?
I’m not saying that all, but facts on the ground were that, 2014–2022, Russia had control of Crimea and nobody was going to do anything about that for fear of getting into conflict with Russia. That Crimea even “passed” into Russian hands without much of a fight from the international community is probably what emboldened Putin to go after the rest of Ukraine. What I’m saying is that had he stuck to just that sort of low-level “piecemeal” approach to carving out sections of Ukraine, like what was do e with Crimea, he wouldn’t have gotten nearly the amount of international backlash that he got.
Is Crimea part of Ukraine? Yes, but when it comes to international borders, facts on the ground are what matter in the long-run. Had Putin bided his time, eventually it would’ve just been accepted as fact. Nobody else would’ve ever cared enough to start a war over it. With Putin going for all-out-war though, he’s revealed Russia’s military weakness and facts on the ground have become mutable again, giving us the chance that we’ll hopefully see Crimea come back into Ukraine.
I’m not judging who is or who isn’t a warmonger or whatever, let’s just be pragmatic, it makes no sense at all for Russia to accept those terms. Were u expecting the Russian Govt. to suddenly wake up one morning feeling bad for what they’ve done and just move the troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea who’s under Russian control for over a decade now, and say “sorry, my bad”? This 10 point plan they “proposed” was only made so western media can say they’re trying to stop the war, which they aren’t. And again, I’m not saying they have to stop the war, I’m just analyzing things objectively.
I’m saying Putin can stop this war right now by going home. This is all Putins’ fault supported by oligarchs. It makes complete sense for putin to accept these terms, because he will eventually be forced to.
There are no oligarchs in Russia.
Words have meanings. An oligarch is someone who has political power through wealth.
Russia is an autocracy, and Putin allows people to be rich, so long as they don’t try to translate that into political power.
America has oligarchs, Russia just has rich people that contribute to an autocracy.
… I’m honestly not sure which is more evil as a political system.
I would say what is in the U.S. because there are more thorns that have to be removed from the rose.
What makes you believe we will eventually be forced? Do you still think our sanctions will make Russia collapse?
When the bombs are on his doorstep caused by his own ignorance.
So you’re cheering for WW3?
No. That was not the question
The counteroffensive is moving forward slowly because the Russians put a ton of mines and trenches in the way. Plus they committed their best troops to stopping it. Still Ukraine is slowly moving forward in the south.
I wouldn’t want to be there right now on either side. But basically the Ukrainians are winning because their artillery is better. Once Ukraine moves their artillery within range of the highway along the Sea of Azov, the troops protecting Crimea will have their supplies threatened. This is the general plan and they’re getting closer.
I never said this in unwinnable, but don’t make any sense to propose a peace plan to Russia right now demanding them to return all the land they occupied. Ukrainians are not dumb, they know this, this peace “proposal” is just a piece of propaganda to western media to say they are trying to start peace talks with Russia or some shit. The Russian ministry answered this out of anger but he’s not wrong, the Ukraine is only getting their territory back if they can put a huge pressure on Russians, possibly only if they can manage to make Russia fear to be attacked on their own territory. And even if this happens we have to trust Russians won’t nuke Ukraine to protect their own territory.
Up until about a week ago, this talking point was still current, but it’s time for a refresh.
Source
They’re making slow progress constantly but the front lines are barely moving. There’s obviously a chance for a big break through as the first defences are always the heaviest and it should get easier after that, but there’s still a long way to go, and they’re both taking heavy casualties every single day.
That’s the opposite of Russia’s defensive doctrine, which would only be exacerbated further by the ability to deploy reserves where necessary. It could be a different story if Ukraine wasn’t having to commit their exploitation forces just to try to reach the first lines of defense; even if they break through tomorrow they won’t really have the manpower to do anything with it.
The only actual progress being made is in destroying the equipment NATO managed to cobble together and losing trained manpower. Even if a miracle happened and Ukraine managed to make some breakthrough, what exactly is it going to be consolidated with given that they spent past three and a half months beating their head against a wall. They’ve already thrown in all the reserve brigades that were originally meant to come in and consolidate the gains now.
What a bunch of Putin propagandistic nonsense.
Either Putin propagandists have now infiltrated mainstream liberal media or you have no clue regarding the state of the war, I’m going to go with the latter here
holy shit stop invading and leave? OUTRAGEOUS! the nerve of zelensky to ask for what is Ukraine’s! I think you should go join the trenches to show how mad you are!
Zelensky knowing that there wasn’t a hope in hell of Russians accepting this is false? You know it, I know it, we all know it. It’s just politics. Of course Zelensky has to offer something, even if he knows they won’t bite.
The Russians have to claw something out of this debacle to sue for peace. And I hope the Ukrainians give them nothing, and take back the Crimea while they’re at it.
No, see when he says “a fairer distribution of global benefits” that needs to start with distributing ukrainian benefits to russian oligarchs obviously!
Why do you want to force the people of Crimea and the Donbas to be subjected to a government that they despise? Why don’t those people have any right to self determination?
they can move to the shithole that is russia if they want to live under a shit government
You want huge populations to be forcibly removed? That sounds like genocide
you mean like the Uyghurs? genocide is really fucked, what are you doing about the Uyghurs?
edit: no-one is forcing russian simps in Crimea to move anywhere you absolute nonce, they can live free under ukraine or go suck balls in russia if thats what they want
They were getting bombed and murdered by the ukrainian military since 2014. Thats not what I call “living free”
the ukranian military were bombing civilians? please, lets see a non-cooker source.
Also i love you mention 2014, i wonder what relevant action happened then that made the whole area a shitstorm? i dunno, must just be a coincidence, surely nothing to do with the incompetant half-strength military staffed by drunk conscripts that has been shooting rockets at hospitals and malls for the past 18 months
edit: also respond to the Uyghur situation. by default you are condoning genocide
Yes.
Bad bot.
bots are at least logical
I mean, if Putin doesn’t want to die, he can always gobtje fuck home. I mean he can still suck a bag of dicks and then choke on them.