The Swedish activist Greta Thunberg has been detained by Israel and reportedly maltreated by her Israeli captors after she was kidnapped, along with hundreds of other activists, from Gaza’s territorial waters on Friday.
When did she do that? I’ve lways thought of her as liberal with rich parents who get’s to do high-publicity protests that achieve nothing and distract from the economic problem.
Y’all got to take the word “distract” out of your vocabulary. Israel is not committing genocide to distract from the Epstein files.
I don’t really know or care much about Greta Thuneberg. But I wouldn’t criticize her unless my activism was objectively more effective than hers…and I don’t think that describes either of us.
That might have been the case some years ago when she was very young, but it is clear that her political consciousness has evolved significantly since then. How many of us can say that we held the same political views as teenagers as we do now?
I think the opposite. The climate thing hasn’t been working as well, so they are flipping to the other side of the coin to push their authoritarianism.
Or maybe I just have an American bias. I’m too use to watching the false dichotomy see-sawing ever couple decades.
I mean she’s great, gave a voice to what a lot of people have been thinking for decades before she was born. Maybe what most people think today.
But there is really nothing that’s effective. It’s not dissing her, it’s just that the machine is too strong and it’s able to even use the opposition to itself for the machines purpose, like the article says.Usually. It didn’t work with Greta, so she’s just ignored.
“We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings.” Ursula K Le Guin
It’s been done before, even under more oppressive conditions. It can and will be done again.
I get it. You find it comforting to believe there’s nothing you can do to change things, so you refuse to consume anything that would challenge that notion. Otherwise, you might feel obligated to do something you aren’t willing to do, like join a cause or think critically about how you might make change.
I suppose ignorance is bliss, after all, but if you did want to challenge that notion, I’m happy to share the following:
The global change in public sentiment regarding Palestine and its occupation by a settler-colonialist force, including 60% of Jews in the US recognizing that Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza (up from 27% in late 2023).
International governments recognizing the state of Palestine. A move, albeit performative, indicating that governments are feeling major public pressure to act. And that was before the solidarity protests and general strikes across europe that are breaking out today.
The successes of the BDS movement. Billions of dollars in divestments have been won from genocidal collaborators like Coca-Cola, Teva, Caterpillar, Microsoft, and countless more, even by governments and retirement indexes, along with 250+ wins in the US alone
Other campaigns; like The Oakland People’s Arms Embargo, and the recently launched AIPAC Out!; uncovering Israel’s American collaborators at every level, in a way that is accessible and therefore actionable to the public.
That’s only what I could name off the top of my head
It is in this context alone that we see serious peace talks taking place, with Trump and other US negotiators getting directly involved, and Israel actually seemingly motivated to engage in negotiations on Hamas’s terms (i.e. their demands for a permanent ceasefire, unrestricted humanitarian aid, full IOF withdrawal, prisoners exchange, resisting the disarmament of their people, etc). That deal most certainly won’t be enough, but it’s a start. We both know that Israel wouldn’t even come to the table without overwhelming pressure to do so. The cracks in the empire are showing and the empire is desperate to close them, but the thing about cracks is they tend to permanently weaken the structures that stand on them.
I actually teach how to plan, execute, and assess political and social impact, beyond practicing it in my orgs. Are you aware there are plenty of disciplines working exactly on this? Your rethoric is just a way to justify your inaction. If nothing can change, it means you’re exempted from your responsibilities. Too easy.
Your teach? Wow. I thought you are a psychic since you know everything about me from one Lemmy post lol.
I hope you aren’t such s duche with you students.
Anyway, in any case it makes sense to asses effectiveness every now and then. For academic purposes of nothing else.
We have also not abandoned many systems many times, that’s not an argument.
Show me the effect and disruption. I’m not against it, just right now there isn’t much there.
You can say she was the head of that flotilla and without her it would be at least much smaller and you are right, but in this case, considering what Israel did to them and there is still a lack of any real effects.
It’s incredibly hard to prove things like this so if you don’t believe it you don’t, but I don’t think the effects are just meant to be directly bringing food to Gaza. If that were the only way to measure it you’d be right. But the only thing which could possibly stop Israel is strong political pressure from the West and we are getting closer to that, the world is angry about it in a way they weren’t before. Even Germany, the most hard-line Israel supporter is changing its stance. These massive protests in Italy wouldn’t have been like this otherwise. Yeah maybe I’m wrong because these things are nebulous and slow but that’s how activism is and I think those things are real changes.
They abandoned her around the time her environmental protests started being a little too effective. I mean disruptive.
they abandoned her right around the time she started to notice she wouldn’t be effective unless she started attacking capitalism as the root cause.
Looked like she was always pushing the marxist position to me. I mean, this mostly started when she was playing with the EU “aristocracy”.
When did she do that? I’ve lways thought of her as liberal with rich parents who get’s to do high-publicity protests that achieve nothing and distract from the economic problem.
Y’all got to take the word “distract” out of your vocabulary. Israel is not committing genocide to distract from the Epstein files.
I don’t really know or care much about Greta Thuneberg. But I wouldn’t criticize her unless my activism was objectively more effective than hers…and I don’t think that describes either of us.
That might have been the case some years ago when she was very young, but it is clear that her political consciousness has evolved significantly since then. How many of us can say that we held the same political views as teenagers as we do now?
it happens… some people put a lot of effort into it at a young age. Although looking back, I now realize that that wasn’t normal.
Wasn’t that also when she started being critical of the impact of capitalism on the environment? 🤔
It’s going to always come down to wealth inequality, which is bred by unregulated capitalism, which is bribed into existence by money in politics.
And getting politicians to reject money is impossible since they don’t want to end up on the eating side of the inequality gap.
I think the opposite. The climate thing hasn’t been working as well, so they are flipping to the other side of the coin to push their authoritarianism.
Or maybe I just have an American bias. I’m too use to watching the false dichotomy see-sawing ever couple decades.
Effective? Come on.
I mean she’s great, gave a voice to what a lot of people have been thinking for decades before she was born. Maybe what most people think today. But there is really nothing that’s effective. It’s not dissing her, it’s just that the machine is too strong and it’s able to even use the opposition to itself for the machines purpose, like the article says.Usually. It didn’t work with Greta, so she’s just ignored.
“We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings.” Ursula K Le Guin
It’s been done before, even under more oppressive conditions. It can and will be done again.
That’s great, but nothing to do with what I’m saying.
I get it. You find it comforting to believe there’s nothing you can do to change things, so you refuse to consume anything that would challenge that notion. Otherwise, you might feel obligated to do something you aren’t willing to do, like join a cause or think critically about how you might make change.
I suppose ignorance is bliss, after all, but if you did want to challenge that notion, I’m happy to share the following:
That’s only what I could name off the top of my head
It is in this context alone that we see serious peace talks taking place, with Trump and other US negotiators getting directly involved, and Israel actually seemingly motivated to engage in negotiations on Hamas’s terms (i.e. their demands for a permanent ceasefire, unrestricted humanitarian aid, full IOF withdrawal, prisoners exchange, resisting the disarmament of their people, etc). That deal most certainly won’t be enough, but it’s a start. We both know that Israel wouldn’t even come to the table without overwhelming pressure to do so. The cracks in the empire are showing and the empire is desperate to close them, but the thing about cracks is they tend to permanently weaken the structures that stand on them.
Yes, that’s all great, but you have completely the wrong assumptions about me and about what I said.
Nevertheless I appreciate that you gathered all that information together.
Wrong
Whatever you say boss.
Your inability to see the connection/unwillingness to admit it doesn’t constitute a particularly persuasive argument
Everything made by humans can be destroyed by humans. No social system is forever. The rest is just skill issue.
Sure. Skill issue. Says the skilled warrior changing the world.
Sure. Whatever you say.
You sound bitter and apathetic
I actually teach how to plan, execute, and assess political and social impact, beyond practicing it in my orgs. Are you aware there are plenty of disciplines working exactly on this? Your rethoric is just a way to justify your inaction. If nothing can change, it means you’re exempted from your responsibilities. Too easy.
Your teach? Wow. I thought you are a psychic since you know everything about me from one Lemmy post lol.
I hope you aren’t such s duche with you students. Anyway, in any case it makes sense to asses effectiveness every now and then. For academic purposes of nothing else.
Dumb take, we have abandoned many an undefeatable system in the past, and giving people’s feelings a voice is what got us there
We have also not abandoned many systems many times, that’s not an argument. Show me the effect and disruption. I’m not against it, just right now there isn’t much there.
You can say she was the head of that flotilla and without her it would be at least much smaller and you are right, but in this case, considering what Israel did to them and there is still a lack of any real effects.
It’s incredibly hard to prove things like this so if you don’t believe it you don’t, but I don’t think the effects are just meant to be directly bringing food to Gaza. If that were the only way to measure it you’d be right. But the only thing which could possibly stop Israel is strong political pressure from the West and we are getting closer to that, the world is angry about it in a way they weren’t before. Even Germany, the most hard-line Israel supporter is changing its stance. These massive protests in Italy wouldn’t have been like this otherwise. Yeah maybe I’m wrong because these things are nebulous and slow but that’s how activism is and I think those things are real changes.
I am thinking of the political effects. I’m surprised that there doesn’t seem to be any after what they did to her and others on the boats.
But on the other hand, the world has stood by for more than half a century of torture of Gazans, so it shouldn’t be surprising.
This stuff takes longer than a news cycle, that was two days ago.
Agreed.