I’m cautiously optimistic that this isn’t a warning sign. I can imagine wanting to do something new after spending so long working on one project, but if he left because things were straying from his vision of Signal that could be a bad sign.
Meh, signal seems like a worse version of matrix to me, is there any reason to prefer it?
It is just closer to WhatsApp. What Matrix does, especially with regards to enabling true multi-device support, is quite complex overall and sometimes causes issues with keys for decrypting messages not arriving on all devices. Signal is more limited but it just works a lot better. Small but important extra: Signal supports fully encrypted voice and video chats.
Full disclosure: I personally also prefer Matrix because I use it with multiple devices. I don’t want to install desktop apps for these services and Element runs in the browser while Signal does not.
Ah, so, what it really seems to come down to is that since it’s centralized, it’s easier to make it work for everyone, no?
Being centralized isn’t the only reason, but basically yes. The concept behind the protocol is simpler because your decryption keys only ever live on one device. You don’t really have the entire trust (and key sharing) model for devices that Matrix has. Signal’s desktop app works very similarly to WhatsApp where your single main device needs to be connected at least intermittently for “guest” sessions to be able to send and receive messages. I haven’t used Signal desktop though, that was just the impression I got from it. Would make sense though because WhatsApp is allegedly borrowing from Signal’s protocol quite a bit.
Well for one thing matrix clients on mobile are…not the best. Element X is looking promising, but it’s currently still in beta. Element misorders messages and crashes often, and most other clients are not as feature complete. Whereas in my experience Signal tends to just work. Plus for the average person it makes for a dead simple drop in replacement to WhatsApp or iMessage. Yes, the phone number requirement has led to issues with governments just blocking the sign up SMSes, but that is a tradeoff they make for convenience.
Matrix also leaks more metadata in comparison to Signal (this is just how decentralization works). Not to mention that the recent vulnerabilities seem to suggest (in my opinion at least) that matrix cryptography is not as battle tested as the Signal protocol.
Besides the observed implementation and specification errors, these vulnerabilities highlight a lack of a unified and formal approach to security guarantees in Matrix. Rather, the specification and its implementations seem to have grown “organically” with new sub-protocols adding new functionalities and thus inadvertently subverting the security guarantees of the core protocol. This suggests that, besides fixing the specific vulnerabilities reported here, the Matrix/Megolm specification will need to receive a formal security analysis to establish confidence in the design.
Real world example: The university I study at promoted matrix as a way for students to chat at the start of the semester, and pushed them to use Element. Practically no one uses it, but I’ve met a few people who do chat with Signal.
I am eagerly waiting for usernames and for something to happen that makes people go to signal. The few people I had there ditched it when it lost sms support.
Most of my family luckily is still finding signal okay. Dropping sms was confusing to some, but i also get the argument for it, as some other struggled with selection of what kind of a message to send. Either way, hard to find an acceptable alternative to move them to
That app became pointlessfore me when it was by internet instead of SMS
I used to be on Signal, then they made a firm stances of no alternate clients, that I could accept. Then they were going in on crypto. I’d just stay away from it. Then they inserted a proprietary shim into their stack that they wouldn’t allow to be audited, because it was SUPPOSEDLY to fight spammers. That was my last straw. Moved the family to Matrix and haven’t looked back. Element is quite good imo. Especially for my family who aren’t technically savy.
Do you have more info on the proprietary shim? I’ve never heard of it
Huh… wonder if that’ll mean change for Signal and wonder what Moxie will be up to now
Damn, that’s big. Was there internal conflict, or amicable? What does it mean for signal?
Also, does anyone know what Moxie might get involved with? He’s quite the interesting character (go watch his sailing documentary if you haven’t already).
It looks amicable. He just wants to move on to new projects it looks like.
