- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
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According to the comments here, innovation should not happen because we already have something. It seems everything needs to be a Windows clone with extra settings and worse UI for it to be considered here. Nothing clean or new that could genuinely help the Linux desktop adoption in the mainstream. The FOSS Gatekeeping continues as always.
I think it is kind of sad that so many people are opposed to such innovations as this is truly what we need as an OS if we want it to be mainstream: differentiating features and a distinct experience. Not a clone that makes people think “oh it looks and behaves mostly like Windows, so it must work just like it!” and then run into a brick wall. I think the main reason people who switch to MacOS succeed and stay and even love it is because 1. MacOS is really easy to learn and 2. People go in not expecting to be like Windows, instead they expect to have to learn a whole new workflow.
If Linux could have such an experience I really think it could help sell the idea of Linux as a separate OS experience/product rather than something that looks and feels like a slightly worse Windows with no telemetry and no forced updates.
Yeah, GNOME is fine. I used KDE for years and got tired of the jank, so now I’m back in GNOME. It’s fine, it launches applications, browses files,and tells me the time, which is about all anyone really needs from a desktop environment. It does a lot more too.
I think it’s a great experience. It’s not for everyone, but nothing is. Use what makes you happy and cheer on projects that fit others’ needs, because the more people use Linux with different configurations, the more functionality we’ll all get and the more bugs will be fixed.
The beauty of Linux is the freedom you get to do whatever you want. What’s not so beautiful however is the people that will tell you the choice you made is wrong and you should feel bad about it and that you are stupid for using not what they chose to use.
Replacing something that works fine, just because it’s old, with something targeted specifically for children is not an innovation. It just makes me fight my tools instead of using them to do my job.
Sounds like a great design direction to me. I’m excited to see how it turns out.
I have never understood why gnome seems to the go-to choice for default DE for so many distros
Why not? It works pretty well.
KDE is janky, and most of the rest are kind of limited in functionality. GNOME just works.
I actually switched to GNOME recently because Wayland works just fine with it and KDE seems to crash, despite me having an AMD GPU. I want it because I have two monitors with different refresh rates and one supports FreeSync, and GNOME Wayland handles it perfectly, whereas KDE doesn’t even launch. I don’t know of any other DE that would work well with my setup.
I don’t particularly like GNOME, but it works well. I used KDE on openSUSE for >2 years now, and I always seemed to run into random bugs and whatnot. I switched to give it a shot after years of using GNOME on Arch, and now I switched back to GNOME on openSUSE and those janky problems went away.
I’d love for KDE to work well, it just gets in my way too much. GNOME just works, so I use it. Maybe I’ll go back to a tiling WM (maybe Sway?) at some point, but since my kids use my computer, I’ll probably put off doing that.
In my experience, KDE works well and gets out of my way, while gnome does stupid shit and is non-configurable. I don;t have multiple monitors with different refresh rates so I can;t comment on that, but I do not run into bugs in KDE often at all!
(I mean I did accidentally lock up my computer by opening several hundred copies of the screenshot app, but that was my fault - I accidentally put a banana on the print screen key!)
Here are a few issues I’ve had on KDE when I only had one monitor (all on KDE X11, KDE Wayland wouldn’t launch on either Nvidia or AMD GPUs):
- “start” bar (whatever KDE calls it) gets stuck open, when I try to have it auto-hide; sometimes it stays open even when maximizing videos
- “win” key stops working to access the start menu, which is an option on the latest KDE (I used to use an extension in KDE4 when it wasn’t an option)
- keyboard switcher bugs out and stays open after selecting a layout (I usually use Dvorak, my kids use QWERTY, so I switch often)
- sometimes locking my screen boots me out of my session into a new window manager login shell, and I lose my open windows; not sure how this happens, maybe my kids mash buttons, idk, but it happens 1-2x/month
I’m sure there are more.
With GNOME Wayland, my issues. are essentially limited to a weird rendering issue that resulted in my screen getting “cut” (as in, right half of my screen rendered down a pixel or two). That’s it. Everything else works smoothly, and I haven’t had any issues in the past 2-3 weeks since installing it.
None of the KDE issues were deal-breakers, they were just kind of annoying and made the desktop feel worse. I don’t need really any features from my DE, I just need to launch apps full-screen and switch between them. That’s it, and KDE failed at that without any extra extensions installed (just whatever ships with openSUSE).
So that’s why I use GNOME. I think KDE is fine, but I honestly don’t care what my DE does, provided it can launch and switch between applications. Once it’s set up and doesn’t look horrible, I generally don’t touch any of the configuration options. I used to care about such things, but after 15-ish years with Linux, I guess the novelty has worn off.
it has less information on screen at any given time than stock dwm so it looks clean an professional on screenshots
Hmmm, I guess that’s plausible. Awful reason, but plausible
Because it just works and looks really good out of the box. Its the only DE with good, seamless fingerprint support for example
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I will admit I am amazed by it at times… not in the way you mean though
Old history - Qt had licensing concerns, gtk+ was guaranteed FOSS, so major distros shipped Gnome2 by default, and it stuck.
Yeah I know, i was there (and I always preferred KDE… migrated to it from Windowmaker of all things, I never could get the hang of Enlightenment, pretty though it was). But that was sorted literally decades ago!
Yeah it was sorted out really long ago. But also it’s not like all these brand new from scratch Linux distros are choosing vanilla gnome. It’s the same big players as decades ago, and their derivatives.
Mfw my bug report is open on the videos lol
" Traditional tiling window managers solve the hidden window problem preventing windows from overlapping. While this works well in some cases, it falls short as a general replacement for stacked, floating windows. "
In 10 years of working with tiling WMs productively on a daily basis this has been an issue exactly 0 times. Even in a world that is tailored to non-tiling WMs they just perform better. Period.
I used i3wm for some time, configuring default placements based on window metadata and used it for work. after some time I realised I’m 40 years old and shit like this is a waste of time. I just want it to think for me
In 10 years of working with tiling WMs productively on a daily basis this has been an issue exactly 0 times…
…for you.
Different people have different needs.
Seems like using a window manager could be a whole rabbit hole. Where do you begin?
start with i3wm/sway or openbox. openbox is a floating window manager so it should be more familiar and i3wm is a tiling window manager. personally i use kde nowadays but i always preferred tiling window managers when i chose to use one. it all comes down to your choices so first see if you prefer tiling or floating window managers and then go from there
I’d recommend sway and waybar. Waybar offers some cool customizable templates. Currently I also use bemenu as a launcher and dunst/poweralertd for notifications. I make heavy use of stacked or tabbed layout during general use.
sway has pretty decent mouse support, but for optimal productivity try to get used to the keyboard shortcuts. As soon as moving/resizing windows and changing desktops becomes muscle memory it’s a whole different ball game.
Gnome devs have a nasty habit of “rethinking” things while ignoring tons of usability issues. I’d like them to stop rethinking things until they addressed those first…
You’re right! All other developments should be stopped and all further innovations halted until separated workspaces on multiple monitors is addressed. As the most popular issue on Gitlab, this is clearly where the shoe presses.
Really bothers me when people waste their time creating new features of free software when existing software don’t even meet the well-established universal criteria for perfection yet. What a waste.
I would love for this to be a thing, but as long as the WM stays EWMH compliant (like most full blown DEs right now), it won’t happen. It’s the one thing keeping me on true tiling WMs. I want virtual desktops to be tied to a monitor, not an X display.
New bridge syndrome. New bridges are exciting, less cruft to work through, and you get a ribbon cutting ceremony. Fixing pot holes is expected and you make drivers mad shutting lanes down.
That said, volunteers that are up to it, bug fixes (and creating good bug reports too) and documenting code is generally seen very appreciatly by code maintainers, but for users of unpaid for FOSS products, you’re going to get bugs and people will fix them when they feel like it.
If users want bug fixes in a certain time frame they need to pay somebody for SLA to fix bugs.
as a crusty suckless dwm user if this works as advertised I’ll switch
I like this idea, interested to see how they get on with it
I’m always cautious when GNOME says they’re reconcepting a process that we’re happy with. I’m curious to see where this goes but unfortunately GNOME already lost me to KDE :(
I worry that the changes will forced.
again???
Hope they come to the conclusion they shouldn’t be doing it and stop.
Window management is one of those areas I’m fascinated with because even after 50 years, nobody’s fully cracked it yet
The article begins with a false premise, misrepresenting the capabilities of Windows and macOS in terms of window management. In reality, both operating systems have been offering effective window management features for years, dating back to Apple’s Exposé release with macOS Panther in 2003. On the other hand, current versions of iPadOS, and GNOME are plagued by poor desktop experiences that hinder efficient multitasking.
Most of us simply want a DE that doesn’t get in the way, but the “solutions” proposed by GNOME often create more obstacles, slow down multi-tasking, and obstruct proper window management. Instead of addressing these issues, the GNOME team continues to introduce convoluted features that fail to improve the user experience. For instance, requiring users to switch to a full-screen interface to access other applications is subpar UX design - Windows 8 did this and proved it was the wrong approach. Additionally, GNOME’s lacks a decent notification area / menu bar like Windows and macOS. Where’s a way to control what icons show up and what are hidden? What about reordering them?
The GNOME team’s fixation on their own unique desktop vision holds back the progress of desktop Linux as a whole. With its potential to excel in this space, GNOME has an opportunity to become a top-tier DE, but poor decisions such as removing desktop icons and insisting on subpar window management keep it from reaching its full potential, becoming the face of Linux desktop.
Window management in macOS is not even as good as current Linux stuff
Yeah, but it used to be. Why can’t we just pick the good parts instead of the garbage…?
Windows is always one step ahead because they experiment a lot. their experiments may flop, they may face outrage, but they are always trying new things. and when they find something good they stick with it.
Things appearing suddenly on screen is more distracting than 200ms animations. On Gnome you’re supposed to click the meta key, type the first 3 letters of the app name, click enter, and the app opens. If you can do it fast enough then you won’t even see the animations, if you can’t then the animations aren’t the problem.
MacOS window management sucks, and Gnome/Plasma are already the face of the Linux desktop.
Things appearing suddenly on screen is more distracting than 200ms animations
No, it is not.
Why?
