WOW the number of people in this thread immediately jumping to the accusers being “false” and deserving jail. Because no actual sexual predator ever got away with it in court…
(Sex crimes are extraordinarily difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because the actions are taken in private without a lot of physical evidence. Which sexual predators rely on to get away with their crimes, by the way.)
Perhaps we should review the sheer volume of young men from all over the US & UK reporting that Spacey was at best inappropriate with them. One of the youngest being 14 years old:
https://people.com/tv/kevin-spacey-controversy-timeline/
And just in case some of us need a refresher course, the rate of false rape accusations is low:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21164210/
And the rate of sexual assault is high:
https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/fastfact.html
Indeed. In a thread a couple of days back on a different (though related) subject I was accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence and the beyond-reasonable-doubt standards that need to be overcome when accusations like this are slung. But it works the same in the other direction too - we can’t assume that an accuser is guilty of fraud or libel or filing false reports or whatever just because they failed to prove their case.
It would not be good for justice if these situations ended up being “now that the accusation has been made someone is going to go to jail, either the accused or the accuser.” The Thunderdome is not a good model to emulate.
accused of being a rape apologist because I was insistent on the presumption of innocence
Good thing to insist on, but be prudent. Keep in mind that, at least on reddit, there’s a tendency for every thread about rape to become a thread about false accusations. I wasn’t there, but in general, sometimes people object not to the presumption of innocence but to people bringing it up.
Yeah this whole thing isn’t simple. Even if he’s cleared of charges, these allegations are old and that makes them hard to prove or disprove.
Further, the quantity is concerning. Maybe he’s just prolifically sexual but my gut can’t really get passed how many accusations there are over such a long span of time. Even if innocent, still creepy is my opinion.
In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn’t mean they’re innocent.
It just another example of having ridiculous amounts of money in our legal system means it’s really hard to be hel accountable.
Hell, trump got off of beating and raping his wife, because of an old ass New York law that said a husband can’t rape his wife under any circumstance.
In general, any multimillionaire that gets off of a serious charge doesn’t mean they’re innocent.
Don’t forget the flip-side of that - the prisons are full of poor people who do not deserve to be there. It’s almost as if the system was designed to be like this…
Also, being a multimillionaire puts a target on your back. I’ll never forget the story about a man who already had a couple of million winning a huge lottery and how lawsuits, among other ever worse things, destroyed his life.
Because Ari Behn was just a clout chaser looking for a quick buck.
the quantity is concerningAnd also not admissible in a criminal court. That’s part of the problem. If you look at the big picture, it’s obvious he did it, but it’s not as easy to prove it in criminal court.
Even if it were all legally fine, something is wrong if that many people are coming forward.
Yet suggest Pee-wee Herman is creepy and you get downvoted. Even though without question he was caught with illegal material.
So you think he’s guilty, because there’s no evidence proving he is?
Insanity.
I refuse to believe you’re actually this stupid. There’s a universe of difference between “it didn’t happen” and “it couldn’t be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court” and you know there is.
Unless you really think OJ didn’t murder his wife either
Three people died after his “Kill Them With Kindness” youtube video.
Your posts are shit. Go back to Reddit. Its dense like you.
From his wiki:
On October 29, 2017, actor Anthony Rapp alleged that Spacey, while appearing intoxicated, made a sexual advance toward him at a party in 1986, when Rapp was 14 and Spacey was 26.[118][119] Rapp had also shared this story in a 2001 interview with The Advocate, but Spacey’s name was redacted from publication to avoid legal disputes and public outing.[120] Spacey stated through Twitter that he did not remember the encounter, but that he owed Rapp “the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior” if he had behaved as asserted.[121][122] On September 9, 2020, Rapp sued Spacey for sexual assault, sexual battery, and intentional infliction of emotional distress under the Child Victims Act.[123]
Fifteen others then came forward alleging similar abuse,[124] including Boston anchorwoman Heather Unruh, who alleged that Spacey sexually assaulted her son;[125][126] filmmaker Tony Montana; actor Roberto Cavazos;[127] Richard Dreyfuss’s son Harry;[128] and eight people who worked on House of Cards.[129] The Guardian was contacted by “a number of people” who alleged that Spacey “groped and behaved in an inappropriate way with young men” as artistic director of the Old Vic.[130][131][132]
Spacey also appears on flight logs from Jeffrey Epstein’s private jet from the early 2000s.[133]
Coming Out Controversy On the same day as Rapp’s allegations against him, Spacey came out as gay when apologizing to Rapp. He said, “I have had relationships with both men and women. I have loved and had romantic encounters with men throughout my life, and I choose now to live as a gay man.”[134][135] His decision to come out via his statement was criticized by gay celebrities, including Billy Eichner, George Takei, Lance Bass, and Wanda Sykes, as an attempt to change the subject and shift focus from Rapp’s accusation, for using his own drunkenness as an excuse for making a sexual advance on a minor, and for implying a connection between homosexuality and child sexual abuse.[136][137][138]
Some readers additionally felt that by claiming he was “horrified” by Rapp’s story, Spacey was attempting to paint himself as the victim of the alleged abuse.[139] In October 2022, Spacey expressed regret over the way he came out and said that it was “never [his] intention” to deflect from the allegations against him or conflate them with his sexual orientation.[140][141]
Reaction and ramifications Amid the allegations, filming was suspended on the sixth and final season of House of Cards. The show’s production company had implemented “an anonymous complaint hotline, crisis counselors, and sexual harassment legal advisors for the crew”, and stated that in 2012, “someone on the crew shared a complaint about a specific remark and gesture made by Kevin Spacey. Immediate action was taken following our review of the situation and we are confident the issue was resolved promptly to the satisfaction of all involved.”[142] According to the production company, Spacey “willingly participated in a training process and since that time MRC has not been made aware of any other complaints” involving him.[143] The show had been due to end in 2018.[125] The season was shortened from 13 episodes to eight, and Spacey was removed from the cast and from his role as executive producer.[144]
The Gore Vidal biographical film Gore, starring Spacey, which was set to be distributed by Netflix, was canceled,[145][146] and Netflix went on to sever all ties with him.[147] He was due to appear in All the Money in the World as industrialist J. Paul Getty; his scenes were cut and Christopher Plummer replaced him as Getty in reshoots.[67] In an interview with Variety, Plummer said, “It’s really not replacing [Spacey]. It’s starting all over again.” Plummer elaborated saying, “I think it’s very sad what happened to him… Kevin is such a talented and a terrifically gifted actor, and it’s so sad. It’s such a shame. That’s all I can say, because that’s it.”[148]
The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences reversed its decision to honor Spacey with the 2017 International Emmy Founders Award.[149] On November 2, 2017, Variety reported that his publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency were ending their relationships with him.
Legal issues The Los Angeles District Attorney’s office stated in April 2018 that it would investigate an allegation that Spacey had sexually assaulted an adult male in 1992.[158][159] In July 2018, three more allegations of sexual assault against Spacey were revealed by Scotland Yard, bringing the total number of open investigations in the UK to six.[160] In September 2018, a lawsuit filed at Los Angeles Superior Court claimed that Spacey sexually assaulted an unnamed masseur at a house in Malibu, California, in October 2016.[161]
In December 2018, Spacey was charged with a felony for allegedly sexually assaulting journalist Heather Unruh’s 18-year-old son in Nantucket, Massachusetts, in July 2016.[162] Spacey pleaded not guilty to the charge on January 7, 2019.[163][164] Unruh’s son told police he was texting with his girlfriend throughout the alleged “groping” incident. Spacey’s defense attorneys spent months trying to obtain copies of the texts and the phone itself. In mid-May 2019, Unruh’s son’s personal attorney informed the court that the cell phone in question is “missing”.[165] On June 4, 2019, the defense learned that when Unruh gave her son’s cell phone to police in 2017, she admitted she had deleted some of the text messages.[165] Later that month, her son filed a lawsuit against Spacey, claiming emotional damages. On July 5, 2019, he voluntarily dismissed the claims with prejudice.[166]
On July 17, 2019, the criminal assault charge against Spacey was dropped by the Cape and Islands prosecutors.[167] When the anonymous massage therapist who accused him died, the last remaining criminal case against Spacey was closed.[168]
On September 9, 2020, Anthony Rapp accused Spacey in a complaint about actions that allegedly happened in 1986 (sexual assault and sexual battery) and intentional infliction of emotional distress under the Child Victims Act, which extended New York’s statute of limitations for suits related to child sexual abuse.[123] Joining Rapp in the suit against Spacey was a man who requested to remain anonymous who accused Spacey of sexually abusing him in 1983, when he was 14 and Spacey was 24.[169][170] On June 17, 2021, the anonymous accuser was dismissed from the case due to his refusal to publicly identify himself.[171] As Rapp’s trial lawsuit against Spacey commenced in October 2022, it was revealed that he had given an inaccurate description of the apartment where he alleged the abuse took place.[172][173] On October 17, the judge dismissed the emotional distress charges due to them being a “duplicate” of the battery charges.[14] On October 20, a jury found Spacey not liable.[174][175]
In 2020, Spacey and his production companies M. Profitt Productions and Trigger Street Productions were ordered to pay $31 million to MRC, the studio that produced House of Cards, for violating its sexual harassment policy.[176] Spacey appealed to have the arbitration award overturned, but the request was denied on August 4, 2022.[177]
On May 26, 2022, Spacey was charged by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the United Kingdom with four counts of sexual assault against three complainants. The alleged offenses occurred between 2005 and 2013 in London and Gloucestershire.[178][179] According to the Crown Prosecution Service, it would only be possible to formally charge Spacey if he entered England or Wales. If Spacey refused to do so voluntarily an extradition process would have been necessary.[180] Nevertheless, in a statement to Good Morning America on May 31, 2022, Spacey said that he would “voluntarily appear in the U.K. as soon as can be arranged”.[181]
In his first British court appearance on June 16, Spacey denied the allegations against him.[182] On July 14, 2022, Spacey pleaded not guilty to the charges in London. [183][184] On November 16, 2022, the CPS authorized an additional seven charges against Spacey, all related to a single complainant arising from incidents alleged to have occurred between 2001 and 2004.[185][186] Three charges were dismissed before or during the trial which began on June 28, 2023, and on July 26, 2023, a jury found Spacey not guilty of the remaining nine charges.
Frankly I wish more court details were in the articles about this. There are a lot of accusers and info on the wiki, I can’t help but feel if he was accused of assaulting women this would have gone differently
~~So, Spacey has been accused by a number of people and the charges from one accuser have been dismissed ~~
I need to learn to read the article fully before commenting 🤦♂️
No, these were nine accusations bought by four separate men. All were dismissed by the jury and notably this was a unanimous, not majority verdict.
There was also the earlier case bought in the US which was dismissed by the judge, I believe.
Yeah, we need to see more details. The allegations against him were serious. This was a spot copy so is understandably sparse on details. I guess we will see more in depth stories being published by tomorrow.
Love the wording for the charges, “causing a person to engage in penetrative sexual activity without consent”.
That’s an awful lot of words for rape.
Wish there was more details in the article. Wonder if he’s blacklisted now or will he be able to get back into movies or shows.
He’s been doing work still (two movies this year) and I’d imagine some directors might start to bring him back in on indie stuff which is where he’s usually best anyway.
I choose now, to live, as a creepy old man. 👏👏👏👏
Hard to tell what actually happened. Looks like he/she (he?) said thing. Why are some of these charges being brought decades later. If incident happened, the evidence can only be gathered right after, otherwise, it will be just that he/she said, which is not enough for a criminal conviction.
Why are some of these charges being brought decades later.
Because accusing a likeable and famous actor while you’re a nobody, will either be ignored or lead to thousands of hateful messages in your inbox every day, unless enough others came forth first.
Well, then the entire case is just an accusation without much evidence besides “trust me bro” and outside of Weinstein who was notorious, it is very unlikely to result in conviction.
Criminal law requires evidence, otherwise it would be abused by people to get rid of people they don’t like or for profit.
This is actually the truth. I am a CSA survivor, and I didn’t report and now I wish so bad I did.
If anyone reading this has recently been through it, report it now! Don’t wait 20 years like me to even confront it and then never have a chance at closure.
I don’t think it matters. He’s got the stink on em and a lot of people aren’t going to be able to overcome that.
I don’t think this changes thing. Not for me at least. He’s had at least a dozen other people accuse him - including people that don’t need his money or notoriety. And while he was cleared of criminal wrong doing in the Anthony Rapp case, I don’t think he ever denied making an advance on a 14 year old boy. Just that he “didn’t remember it” - which hardly matters. I don’t care how drunk I get. I’m not accidentally going to hit on children.
37 years ago he may have made a mistake, with no proof other than hearsay…
What kind of proof do you think typically exists when a crime is committed and the only individuals present are the alleged victim and perpetrator?
That’s kind of the point. We live in a system that is supposed to be “innocent until proven guilty”. Not because people who commit crimes should get away with them, but because the opposite system would be completely untenable. How exactly is he supposed to prove that he is innocent? I don’t care how sure anyone is that he did it. Prove it, or by our legal standard, he must be considered innocent.
If you want to live in a society where accusation is tantamount to fact, you’re going to regret it as soon as anyone says anything about you.
Your conflating the legal system with greater society. He’s not in jail or paying a settlement because there wasn’t enough evidence to convict him in court. The rest of society is not bound by these same restrictions and are free to pass judgment as they please.
I wouldn’t say accusations are tantamount to fact, but when you get dozens of people making the same accusation, about a crime that’s difficult to prosecute and convict because of the nature of the crime, it’s hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Are you not also passing judgement on the accusers here? You’re essentially calling them all liars who are guilty of making false reports. Both sides can’t be “innocent” here.
Uncanceled, I guess. After reading the background on his case and seeing this outcome I’d imagine we’ll see him pop back up in a few projects assuming he doesn’t just decide to retire.
Damn, I feel like his name’s been dragged through the mud these past few years. Not sure what the details of this whole thing are, but if the verdict is “Not Guilty” I guess that’s that.
Legal is not the same as moral or ethical. While he did not do things that were bad enough to lock him in a room over, we as a society are still allowed to socially punish him.
Or he did do the things but they’re hard to prove in the court of law.
Agree about “legal being not the same as moral or ethical”, but calling for mob justice just isn’t something I would root for. The system isn’t perfect, of course, but one has to trust that people sitting in court have had access to more evidence than the randos of the internet, that, and the fact that everyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
everyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
Yes, absolutely. But the thing is that a lot of things are proven during trials that are immoral but not illegal. He could still have done a ton of indefensible stuff that makes him a bad person but still get a not guilty verdict. My point is that “Not being a criminal” is the lowest tier we should judge a person. If we are going to give a person a large amount of money and influence we are allowed to ask for more.
Yep, I get the sentiment, but it’s up to us to make amoral things illegal by means of democratic representation (assuming you live in a democratic country). It’s just slower, but that’s kind of the whole point of this :)
But what did he do? I’m not very tuned into everything that happened. Did he commit sexual assault or not? If they can’t charge him, I’d assume that means they can’t prove he did it right? OFC that doesn’t mean he actually didn’t, but I don’t see why anyone should “socially punish” him over something you don’t even know if he did or not, and something that he was found not guilty of.
I don’t mean for this sound like sexual assault apologia or something, I just really don’t understand the situation very well and trying to look this up online all I see is that he was accused and then found not guilty.
False accusers belong in jail or sued. IANAL I guess they will remain anonymous and free.
The incidents are mostly very old and hard to prove in court. This does not mean they lied, it means there is not enough physical evidence to convict.
Child abusers who are buddies with Epstein belong in jail.
If the accusations against him were really false, the accusers deserve to be in jail considering the amount of damage they did to his career and his reputation.
Assuming the UK has similar enough standards of evidence to the US, cleared of charges is not the same as a false accusation. There just might not have been sufficient evidence to convict him. On top of that, they would likely need some strong evidence to bring charges for a false accusation (which they might not have).
That is true.
A lack of sentence does not necessarily mean they were false accusations
True but accusations does not mean criminal conduct happened either…
Although, so many accusations do seem like there is something there.
(I guess that’s why the “If” is there.)
Lawyer: we need to wait, society forgets stuff easily. Years later. Lawyer: now is the time, let’s pay them
