https://www.procustodibus.com/blog/2023/04/wireguard-netns-for-specific-apps/

https://volatilesystems.org/wireguard-in-a-separate-linux-network-namespace.html

https://github.com/dadevel/wg-netns

https://www.ismailzai.com/blog/creating-wireguard-jails-with-linux-network-namespace

On NixOS:

https://vtimofeenko.com/posts/wireguard-namespace-flake/

One of these should work

Try oniux for that, exactly what you need

Otherwise look into oniux and how to replace arti with wireguare/shadowsocks/xray/amneziawg

LOL

It does? I use it on KDE Wayland

Extra checked the name of the thing

I use it to change brightness via KDE Connect.

windows updates often reset (unknown!) settings

Which is an effect of trying to manage a chaotic system. NixOS solves this by having strict checks but giving users the ability to configure their system.

The system is very mutable but centrally controlled.

Windows has an idea how it wants to look like, but at the same time grants software all sorts of crazy permissions. Adobe software doesnt run when “storage protection mode against ransomware” is enabled for example.

The Windows store apps are better isolated, with permissions etc. But same as on Linux with Flatpak, Software vendors dont want to change their software to be less invasive.

I mean Windows pretty much thrives off the fact that you rely on random 3rd party software like drivers to be able to be installable externally and run with very high privileges. So they dont need to do the work.

the weird part being that windows is that stable even with the chaos it does in its system files

Microsoft is 1000 times the size if RedHat, Canonical or SUSE, if not more. They just throw lots of money at it.

Also it is mission critical, so you can kinda expect vendors to test their software better, a bit.

Not always (crowdstrike lol)

mint is supposed to undo shit decisions of ubuntu

Yes for sure. I just meant software compatibility, but I assume I made that up from the back of my head. I only had one Docker issue, thats it.

I don’t get it either, LMDE is treated as a testing project by mint

No idea what is so hard about it, things like these just show how small this project is! It is literally an Ubuntu LTS downstream, nothing crazy. But 2/3 beginners use it, which is kinda insane.

distros should let the user be able to defer updates, but make them effortless to install.

Agreed. Though as said, a good software management concept with atomic updates and rollbacks, as well as tested software (and a damn longterm kernel, Fedora) doesnt need people wondering if they should update.

Unless you are a power-poweruser, not updating is a baseless gut decision. With a good system you dont need to do that.

people complain about forced windows updates all the time and for good reasons.

Because Windows updates take long and cause downtime. Also forcing reboots is not great (though I dont know if they just do that if there was a real vulnerability, that would be fine)

Windows updates are pretty damn fine. Overengineered, maybe? But the system is not immutable, so they do checksums everywhere, to validate the OS.

OSTree or NixOS do it better, but have way bigger downsides. Maybe not compared to Windows, they should just fix their stuff.

But I guess Windows updates are more stable than typical Linux updates, more tests etc.

did you see how kde plasma 6 does it nowadays? its on the shutdown button. that is the way.

That is fine, but only makes sense with package-based distros that have some kind of parallel miniature system running the updates.

Basically what Windows does, and Fedora now too.

Atomic updates are WAY better. No downtime and still more stable than running a very small live OS replacing itself. Maybe the live OS is in RAM, idk.

Uhm I think you mean Leap. Slowroll is really new and an amazing concept.

Semi-rolling with a few packports and a short feature delay of 3 months.

Fedora is fine, but they dont have the longterm kernel. You can stay on the older supported version for more stable software.

Fedora KDE broke for me once with very very nontrivially fixable DNF and RPM issues. Pretty insane. Fedora upgrades are messy and weird.

Fedora Atomic though is nearly unbreakable. Though, NixOS might be better as /etc (and with home-manager /home) are manages and dont accumulate garnage and state

Last time I tried something was automatic but not updates, just reminders.

While I am personally fine with manually updating, I really dont want to need to

Where? How?

Because… people need systems that work??

Not everyone can fix a broken system every month

Lol do you have 2 alt accounts? XDD

Default Linux Mint, ubuntu based.

Installed on an old laptop, 2 old macbooks, one crazy powerful PC of my uncle.

This is a cinnamon issue. Maybe their wayland session is better now, I can hope so. Still, due to the modular nature of Wayland, either they make their own stack or use something else.

Would be nice to join XFCE, Budgie etc, but they prefer their own thing.

Cinnamon and Mint are fine projects for what they are. Small, pretty outdated community projects. But it is incredible how the ratio of users/developers explodes on Mint compared to anything else.

Probably because it is targeted at non-developers.

And also, are you too lazy to update your system occasionally, which is a simple command or a few clicks?

No, as said. This is about recommending distros for people switching from Windows. Not my personal hobby machine.

click a few buttons every few weeks/months

That is too rare. You should update at least weekly.

And yes it is silly

1. “You have an update”
2. Open a graphical appstore for no reason
3. Show you a bunch of packages, unless you are an expert you will not need that info and click “yes” all the time
4. Wait, with an open GUI window
5. Often you will be prompted to reboot

Why? Updates dont need a GUI and can go fine in the background. An update notification to reboot once done works too.

And NixOS as well as Ostree or bootc based distros offer you multiple boot targets, so if something breaks you can go back.

OpenSUSE Tumbleweed/Slowroll are my go-to if I want something more messy (if I want to do changes to the system without caring about packaging), as they have snapshots by default.

whatever atomic distro you mention has a small repo

No idea what you mean. If you search for “universal blue”, “bluefin”, “aurora”, “fedora kinoite” or “HeliumOS” you will absolutely find it.

NixOS, which i doubt since you need to reboot to update

Nixos supports fully atomic updates which should be used. The live updates always break stuff.

I am on NixOS, but for beginners I would recommend uBlue or CentOS-Stream based atomic desktops. Fedoras biggest issue is that they have no longterm kernel

“immutable”

Why? Note that these distros are not “immutable”, but all of the below are used mostly by noobs and are all immutable

• android
• steamOS
• any mobile or console OS
• even Windows and MacOS in big parts

Image-based means that updates and upgrades are EXTREMELY stable. They basically never break, while package-based systems ALWAYS lead you into horrible situations, unbooting desktops, broken whatever, autoremoving GNOME for whatever reason etc.

Murphys law, if something bad can happen, it will happen. We cannot seriously use and promote systems where we expect upgrades to break them.

I nowadays administer systems a bit and have seen completely broken systems on

• Linux Mint
• Fedora regular
• Ubuntu
• Debian

Package-based distros are not beginner friendly. They give the user the complete ability to break their entire system, for what reason?

Not everyone needs to be a sysadmin. If we want to convince people to switch, Linux needs to be at least as stable as Windows or even MacOS.

declarative

Why not?? Have you ever thought about that statement more than a few seconds?

Why dont you see the whole picture? Declarative means you need to spend more time setting things up, having an experienced person help you will greatly improve this.

But from then on you have a rock stable and very transparent system that will not break over time, and making changes is pretty easy.

I made a repo on Codeberg for exactly that purpose, showing people how easy a simple NixOS setup can be.

Half a year ago or so

No not true, dont pretend you know me lol XD

Mint was my first distro, fine but random crashes.

Then I dealt with it on some occasions, as everyone installs it. Nobody needs to advertize that small extremely overhyped distro, as everyone always uses it!

Timeshift has nothing to do with hard upgrades. It might not break, but it will not upgrade as it has complex issues with package conflicts and whatever that need to be figured out.

Try Fedora Atomic desktops please. This discussion is senseless. They are very easy to use and extremely stable.

That’s why PPAs exist. Besides, the average user is NOT interested in bleeding-edge software.

What? PPAs are unofficial repos meant for developers to test their software. They shouldnt be added to your system and will introduce breakages that will then give you a pain when upgrading.

And this is not about “bleeding edge” but security fixes.

Ubuntu is not recommended anymore. Also, there’s LMDE for that purpose.

What? Linux mint is based on Ubuntu because that is supposed to be the great distro. If tutorials for Ubuntu suddenly dont work, that is bad.

LMDE was reported to work way less well than regular Mint. But for sure that is a good path onwards.

Updating your computer is YOUR choice, it’s YOUR computer.

First you tell me that I am tech savvy and thus have issues with mint. Then you assume everyone should evaluate if updates are needed or not? People are not distro maintainers. Distros apply updates, and users should not need to press buttons and wait all the time.

On Atomic desktops you reboot to apply an update and you are not forced to reboot. Updates are done in the background with no user interaction, as it is pointless. If you rely on users manually pressing a button, then your automatic updates are bad.

Updates should not be done

• on low battery
• maybe just on AC
• on metered connections (like phone hotspots)
• on high CPU load
• maybe at certain day times

If you detect that and include it in the system (like uBlue does for theirs!) users dont need to press buttons. There is no decision, you update or you are behind on security fixes.

Introducing decisions for things that are not in question is bad UX and leads to people randomly ignoring upgrades. Updates should not annoy you or break the system, or the system itself is not well made.

Man, please just try them, you dont know what I am talking about.

The App Store (or whatever it is called) includes BOTH OFFICIAL deb packages AND VERIFIED Flatpaks.

You dont know how Flatpak verification works or dont care to understand it.

All Ubuntu/Mint packages are “unofficial” as they are packaged by maintainers and not the devs themselves.

Only exception are external repos for things like Firefox.

Normal flathub is the same, while flatpaks are more up to date and containerized. It is a silly and harmful decision to prefer unverified .deb packages over unverified flatpaks.

Deb packages have access over EVERYTHING. Literally and deb package could be a virus, as they dont have any isolation apart from some weak Apparmor profiles.

There’s XFCE and MATE editions to solve that. Even if those DEs may not be enough, you can install a new one.

LOL you call XFCE and Mate modern desktops ? XDDDD

also, we are talking about beginner friendly distros. Installing Plasma on Mint will result in an ugly frankenstein, that might also suffer from being “stable” with unfixed bugs.

There’s a “Cinnamon on Wayland (Experimental)” session for that.

Yes. GNOME and KDE, as well as many window managers, support Wayland perfectly since years. On Mint with Wayland last time I tried it, even keyboard input and scaling were broken.

A small downstream distro using a nieche nonstandard desktop environment is not the beginner friendly distro people should use. The best experience will come with GNOME or KDE as they get the most work done.

And additionally, as I clearly separated, a package based distro is not suited or needed for most workflows.

Try an image based Distro first, then argue about them.

No.

Mint works ootb but that is just one criterium. People can help you with setup. What about

• breaking with upgrades or needing an at least medium savvy user to do them
• lacking behind on updates
• incompatibilities with Ubuntu that occur
• upgrades not being enforced-ish so noobs dont care and dont upgrade (I know more than 2 people like that, you are in a bubble if you think manually upgrading is something that people do)
• flathub being preinstalled but only verified apps are there, instead “unverified” deb packages are promoted that are not sandboxed and behind on updates
• desktop looks ok but kinda ugly
• apps same, subpar to KDE
• X11? I hate when people like LTT think that this outdated stack is what we currently have on Linux. I hope they can get the wayland session going but Cinnamon will always be behind GNOME and KDE

why should an underdog nieche distro with ¼ the maintainers of KDE or GNOME (rough approximation, may be way worse) be better for beginners than the actual standard?

No.

My experience after many years

Dont recommend mint to new users or they will think linux is objectively worse looking, has graphics issues with mixed DPI and multi monitor, etc etc

Mint does some things right, some things wrong. Like flatpak, but not entire flathub. Or nice update reminder but no automatic updates.

A few distros I recommend for people switching:

I explicitely, from experience, do not recommend

• Linux f**ing mint or other nieche Distros stuck on X11, that will convince new people that Linux is worse than Windows
• Fedora regular as upgrades always break
• Ubuntu due to snaps, weird upgrading system, weird decisions, nonstandard customizations breaking things
• Ubuntu derivatives due to LTS
• small nieche distros made by few people like Nobara or CachyOS (If you dont plan to distrohop at any time)