What would an intelligent person, by your estimation, take fault with in Marx?
The dictatorship of the proletariat was a horribly bad idea. It’s a dictatorship. And brings the consequences of a dictatorship with it. I would dare to blame Lenin and also Marx for that crap.
When you figure out a better way to do that, get back to me.
Here goes:
A similar jump from around 1949 to 1980. In China it seems to have begun around 1930, with WWII causing a dent. In Finland the same had begun around 1880’s. But the development between 1949 and 1980 is very similar, only: without concentration camps! (…since 1918.)
why you elected to make a statement that seemed to limit itself to a binary of fascist/"tankies”.
Because that is the subject we are talking about. We are talking about to what extent tankies are similar to fascists.
Also, I do not think temporarily holding a percent of an ethnicity in an internment camp is enough to call something a genocide.
Temporarily, not. But anything that forces people to have to lose their national or thnic identity is genocide. We are not talking about any temporary internment camps here. (I’m not sure if temporary internment camps based on ethnicity have ever even existed…)
to provide relevant comparison of similar examples that were not fascist nor “tankies”.
If they do not support using a country’s military against its own population nor are fascists, how are they relevant to this discussion that is intentionally limited to those two groups?
First of all……how is the US not a democratic country?
Uh… Read the news maybe? WTF kind of question is this? How is it a democratic country?
Just off the top of my head Canada has a brutal history of suppressing their native inhabitants that endures to the modern age. Both france and the UK also had interment camps during ww2.
No idea of what’s been going on in Canada. POW camps don’t really count. Nor any camps where the goal is not the removal of an ethnicity or nationality from from a region.
The question about Israel’s democracy is an interesting one that I need to ponded more!
Precisely the colonies that were gradually colonized in the 16th to 20th century.
Just like French and British colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago, Russian colonies are still colonies even if they were colonized centuries ago.
The eastern parts of the Russia only really ended up under Russian rule after the Transsiberian railway was built.
Some knew some English, partially I used the rudimentary Turkish I know, partially I used a Mandarin to English translator tool. Mostly I ended up being hosted by people who knew some English.
It ended up being a mix of Turkish, Chinese and English in the end.
I believe at the point they have already become tankies, no good goal exists anymore. They only seem to work to defend what they have already achieved. And that is oppression.
I’m not sure socialism or communism can ever be made to work, but at least Marx and Lenin made it much more difficult to ever get there by demandinfmg we do the opposite of the goals of communism in order to get communism. People who are okay with cleansings and repression will cleanse and repress.
You don’t really go through the chore of reading Capital without really wanting to change the society for better. And because Marx, the death of communism, preferred violence and is convincing with his way of argumentation (at least if you’re a bit stupid), those who read the book until the end, end up forfeiting all good goals and will go for repression.
Tankies are people who used to want good things and fairness. And then they converted from that into tankies.
A strong leader will always lead you into a Russia. Into a quagmire.
Do you think the current colonies of the Russia somehow appeared out of thin air? All of the Russia’s current territory has been Soviet territory in the past. All of the Russia’s colonies were of course also Soviet colonies.
Listen, FUCK the IAEA you could see those Iraqi chemical weapons factories with your bare eyes
Hehe, and how many were actually found after Iraq had been succesfully invaded? Correct.
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that.
But yeah, I would imagine that their countries were pressured into this by some kind of a trade deal. Just like a Christian country can help undermine another Christian country for personal profit, a Muslim country can help undermine another Muslim country for personal profit.
You could also compare it to things “democratic” countries have done. America for one has had decades of segregation based on ethnicity and has had concentration camps for ethnic minorities, not to mention a genocide against indigenous peoples.
Yes, you can. Generally, any country where an ideology goes over individuals’ well-being tends to do this shit. China does, USA does as well. Not terribly surprising.
1/6 on camps is a LOT. It does fulfill the definition of genocide.
What makes you think that USA is relevant here? I am not from USA. USA is not a part of China, nor the other way around.
This is not my attempt of a whataboutism, just trying to illiustrate that unjustifiable national policy is not unique to socialist or democratic capitalist governments.
Show me a democratic country where this happens. You’re giving me China and USA. And there’s also the Russia. But is there actually a democratic country where people are handled they way countries such as USA and China do?
I don’t think there’s anything that can only be achieved by that.
But generally in China the CCP is who decides about everything that happens in the country. Being religious is one of the things that are against the official template of how a person should be. Any religion is a problem, but a nation as religious as Uyghurs is considered a problem.
And of course: Just look at the clocks. Any clock in the Uyghur areas is showing the local time, not Beijing time. Only clocks at railway stations, police stations and such show the Beijing time. The people there are far too independent for Beijing’s liking. Or yours.
US is a shithole country. I wouldn’t go there if they paid me to. I do not care of what US is or is not. For your US-centric, well, you: USA and China are two wholly separate countries. US doing something does not mean that China is automatically good/bad as a result of whatever dumb thing the US government decides to do.
And “we” did not justify invading Iraq and Afghanistan. The rally against the war in Iraq was probably the largest rally there has ever been in Finland, for crying out loud!
Please link some reference to this.
Well, your source is shit.
And so is the video linked. You can also use your own logic to notice its fallacies. You don’t get just anyone invited to a soccer match. It’s an important situation for propaganda, so you only allow people there who know what truth to say if anyone asks. And what kind of face to show. Ones that know what will happen to them and their relatives if they fall off the line.
I don’t know why you believe the “dude trust me” guy on the video. Nor why I should trust you, dude.
I did watch the first three minutes. Everything he shows is true, everything he explains as interpretation is just full of shit.
“Why?”
Well, for the same reason Soviet Union was doing the same to its colonies. Or why France was doing the same to its.
Blargh, the guy’s eaten the hook with bait and floater.
My experiences with Uyghurs differ from yours. I was backpacking in Kazakstan and China and the repression was easy to notice with bare eyes. The Uyghurs wouldn’t be that scared of a 7-year-old Han-girl if there was no repression.
How was your visit to East Türkestan?
Oh, and Uyghurs are not Arabs, BTW! They are a Turkic nation.
I completely agree.
And now, when writing this… Argh. Uyghurs. You absolutely cannot compare it to what Nazis did, but if you compare it to what other fascist countries died then yes, that’s quite some consequence.
I still would not write an equal sign between fascists and tankies, though.
In the end, tankie is a type of a socialist, and one becomes socialist through a will to do good. Being a tankie is some EXTREMELY fucking ill-advised way to do good, because the result is indeed very very bad. But you don’t really become a fascist in order to do good. You become a fascist because you think you are worth more than others.
I think being a tankie is about the goal being more important than the means – all the way to an extent where the means completely obliterate the goal. And being a fascist is about deciding that being limitlessly selfish is okay. One is at least trying to have a good goal. The other one is just… “Everything for ME and MY TRIBE, all others should DIE!” But in the end, what’s being done to Uyghurs is just horror. Being thrown into a concentration camp and being subjected to various inhumane experiments is already on a very high level of evil to have to experience.
Yes, and that’s precisely the reason many instances have defederated from lemmy.ml.