cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/39342270
Well folks, it’s the beginning of a new era: after nearly three decades of KDE desktop environments running on X11, the future KDE Plasma 6.8 release will be Wayland-exclusive! Support for X11 applications will be fully entrusted to Xwayland, and the Plasma X11 session will no longer be included.
Honestly for the best. X11 was great for what it was, but Wayland is the future. XWayland covers X11 apps that haven’t been ported yet.
Now I just wish Cinnamon would hurry up and move to fully default Wayland.
The KDE bug tracker now:
Apparently, this is hardly hyperbole. For example: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377162
Talk about arrogance. In the window paradigm, only a few desktops ever REQUIRED a similar look and feel for all windows. Apple was the worst offender for that. I suggest that if Edmundson wants a similar look and feel, he should go get himself a Mac and stop mucking up KDE.
From a quick look at the proposed patch - and obviously without having the full picture - it’s true that it would add some complexity. But it’s code for the sake of people’s convenience, not the other way around, right? IMHO, as long as:
- shading is off by default,
- users get a clear message about limitations and SSD/CSD complications before enabling it,
- the implementation doesn’t introduce impossible-to-maintain logic and limits some weird edge cases like resizing a shaded window, then it’s worth doing.
Oops, thanks.
“For most users, this will have no immediate impact. The vast majority of our users are already using the Wayland session”
So happy to read this as there is always somebody still claiming that “Wayland does not work” and “nobody wants to switch to Wayland” just because they have not.
Also great to see that the plan is for Wayland on FreeBSD as well so the Open Source desktops can stay aligned. GNOME on FreeBSD is more problematic, not because of Wayland but because of Systemd.
The problem isn’t really with Wayland not working though, it’s with other software not being caught up to work fully with wayland.
For example, in X, I can have my single screen windows work laptop display to my multi-monitor linux machine with remmina and be able to interact with the laptop as if it had multiple monitors.
Remmina cannot do this with Wayland as far as I have been able to determine.
Clearly not the fault of Wayland, but also kind of a pain in the ass that there are issues like this since some other maintainers/devs haven’t implemented what is required in their software yet.
lol read a few comments down.
It’s a very Linux thing.
People get very particular about their setups.
It’s understandable on some level: if you’re suddenly no longer part of the majority tribe you know you’ll get fewer bug fixes and so on.
So bullying and FUDing people into staying with your tribe could pay off.
What I don’t get is how they don’t realize that they’ve lost. PulseAudio (through PipeWire) is here to stay. Systemd is here to stay. Wayland is here to stay.
Maybe they just like being contrarian if they can’t win.
The main thing is that pipewire is a drop-in replacement because of how it works, wayland isnt
Well shit. I would like this better if more things played nicely with wayland, as wayland itself seems pretty great. Remmina for example can’t do multi-monitor outside of x/xwayland for example and this is breaking for me when i remote into my work computer.
I realize that this is the fault of remmina and not wayland. Any RDP client recommendations that work on wayland for this?
I don’t think they’re removing XWayland. Just the X11 session option. You can still run legacy X11 apps in XWayland AFAIK.
I honestly don’t know a tonne about the topic. If you happen to know, what exactly is xwayland and how would I go about implementing it (on debian 13). Curious if it would have ramifications for my system for better or worse, might be interested in trying it out until other software can get caught up with wayland proper.
XWayland is the compatibility layer in Wayland to run X11 applications within Wayland. I’ve never had an issue with it on any application that still used X11 and it’s pre-installed, so you don’t have to do anything, if you’re running Wayland.
Ahh I see. Doesn’t quite solve all of my problems then, but at least it’s doing some heavy lifting already without me knowing. Thanks!
Try KRDC.
I did earlier and it bugged out for me for some reason and was unusable. Possibly a config problem, will try later on when I have a bit more time.
RDP has been my biggest gripe moving to wayland for my workstations at work. I’ve done a ton of looking and found nothing that actually replaces the extremely mature RDP environment that X has. For the life of me I cant get the built in KDE remote desktop to work.
In the meantime since everyone is just moving forward with wayland without much for remote desktop support I just use a virtual X session over xrdp.
Damn. I guess it’s finally goodbye window shade or goodbye Plasma. I really wish they’d figured out a solution.
I get it though. The edge cases will never be fixed until devs know what they are, and GNOME proved this is an effective way to find out.
I don’t even know what window shading is…. What is it?
It looks like it’s still being discussed:
The description in the ticket isn’t too bad:
allows users to make a window disappear and keep only its title bar visible.
It really just hides the window contents. In effect, it is similar to minimizing a window, except that it doesn’t spring into your panel and rather stays in place as just the window title bar without the contents.
It is a niche feature, if you couldn’t tell. But it isn’t some KDE specialty feature; various other desktops and window managers also support it. I think, it was more popular in the early days of graphical user interfaces, when we were still working out, how we want to do panels and such.
And conversely, I do think it makes more sense as a feature on big screens like you can have today, where your panel might be quite a bit away.
Don’t think, window shading will make a big comeback just yet, but yeah, probably enough existing users that use it, so that it would be cool to support that workflow.Thanks for the link! Heartening to know there are others that love this feature like i do
Wow!! What a news! :)
God dammit, everytime I have to use wayland I find something that I need to use which doesn’t work.
Can we please wait until wayland can actually replace x11 and not pretend just showing a desktop is all it needs to do?
Can we please wait until wayland can actually replace x11
Unfortunately there’s always devs that refuse to change so long as their setup still works, even if there’s significantly better alternatives. The only option for dealing with them is to rip off the bandaid. Either they’ll put in the work to keep up or they’ll fall into obscyrity
Meanwhile, my OS switched to Wayland while updating at some point and I didn’t even notice.
I think if you have some use-case that Wayland doesn’t fulfill, it’s totally fine to just pin some version of Plasma and stick with it. Maybe even switch to Trinity. Chances are it will keep working for like a decade or more.
I still use kdenlive 18.08, because I know how to use that version, and it does what I need it to do perfectly well. They broke something I needed in 19.whatever (I don’t remember what it was anymore), so I just pinned it and kept using it ever since. Maybe one day I’ll try to figure out the latest version, but there’s no real incentive for me to do so.
Yeah, you are right. Just a massive pain to deal with as things continue to diverge and I’m forced to deal with maintaining more and more custom solutions just to maintain functionality.
I want wayland to get there, just not seeing it yet.
